An honest question

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Wittmann, Mar 8, 2006.

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  1. Not really a current affairs issue but one I hope you can help me with

    Something I have never worked out

    Without the usual inter service slagging can someone explain to me why the Army always comes out second best in Defence?

    Why do RAF bases have swimming pools and better Gyms?

    Why are RAF and Navy MQ better than ours?

    Why do RAF Messes have twice the facilities for 1/2 the mess bill?

    Why is the RAF regt so blatantly over equipped for its role?

    What are we doing wrong or what are they doing right?
  2. Without starting a Turf War:

    The RAF has fixed bases and rotates Officers & Men as individuals thru' the Base or Sqn. The Army tends to Rotate and move whole units. The RGJ may do a 2 year tour at Palace or 39 BDE and then go to Germany or the Mainland. They are not in for the long haul. The Techies / Officers / Men / Soldiers of the Army are just as equal as their RAF counterparts but the RAF has a different attitude as it's a single capbadge. In the Army you are badged for life to a Corp or Regiment. Apart from RHQ you will move as a unit between Weeton, North Luffenham, Cyprus, Germany en masse. It's the same in the Navy, Pompey, Gus & Faslane are great because individuals rotate thru'. It's down to conditioning and habituation as Socialogists would describe. (Dirty Left Wing Pinko's)

  3. The RLC rotate officers and soldiers through Sqn too so thats that theory scuppered it seems to me to be about the Royal Prefix Live seems better over there and am talking ROYAL AIR FORCE, ROYAL NAVY not individual regiments Not having a bash just my opinion
  4. The Army is manpower-heavy and has swinging equipment bills. It naturally tends to spend money on stuff which goes bang and only gets around to the people investments after that. The RAF are manpower-light and equipment-heavy, but their equipment tends to be major capital investments, funded as investments rather than running costs, so they can make more resource available for people stuff. Plus they're all pouffs ;)
  5. So will super garrisons change this?

    Will Catterick rival Honnington?

    Will Tidworth rival Faslane?

    or will we just get on with it?
  6. I think the RAF and Navy have valued the individual for far longer than the Army. Certainly the RAF are far more willing to come forward and complain to the chain of command when things are not as they should be, something that a Soldier may not be willing to do. The RAF have built an ethos and so have we, theirs was far more benificial to individual airmen than ours has been over time.

    Since the end of WW2, we've been manning huge garrisons in Germany and more recently in NI and Cyprus - its a costly business and the money only went so far - alot of the time to the detriment of the living and working conditions of Soldiers. We are far more willing to tut, say this is shit and get on with life, an airman would have got the Strike rule book out and pointed out to the COC that his living conditions were below standard and would have been listened to.

    As far as i can tell, the lot of the soldier is improving and having spoken to some of the crabs i work with, theirs is getting worse!!! Hopefully a happy medium can be reached somewhere in the middle.
  7. Having worked with the crab blue brigade for the last year or more I think its down to their whinging. They are so 'Pink and Fluffy' its unbeleivable. They know what they are entitled to and they know thier lawyers phone number if things get serious.

    Seriously though they must have far more money spent on them per head than the Army. The Station I am on must have over 30 'Rest Rooms' next to work areas. These include TV's (some of which are flat screen) and cooking facilities. In one small building they even have seperate Seniors and Juniors Rest Rooms. As to why they get all this extra money spent on them, I haven't got a clue.

    But I do know that they can't buy the Team spirit/ Banter/ Camaraderie/ Sense of Humour that you find in any Army Regiment. They just haven't got it.
  8. I have always said, and alot of people have agreed with me - if I was to join the services again, then I would join the RAF. Although I know the grass is always greener on the otherside, but they do seem to know how to look after there blokes. Okay, the promotion is sh1t, but even the SAC's appear to get treated like adults.

    I remember on a flight back from Germany, I was reading an RAF magazine and it had an article about how SAC Blogs organised an AT expedition to somewhere like Napal. Can you imagine a senior Sapper/Private being allowed to organise a similair thing!

  9. Clerk_of_Jerks

    Your correct you may not be able to buy the team spirit of an Army Regt. However crabs send their Officers to War. The Army sends soldiers to battle. A crab on the line fixing a jet at Brize or Basrah is not in danger. He cares more about his allowances and standard of living. I am an Officer but believe that the Army must alter and empower the Ranks to demand more. You would get the retention and stop wasting silly money on recruitment. When the heating failed once at my depot I bussed a whole block to a local hotel and gave them single rooms and deducted their costs from the monthly bill to the civvie firm who failed in their planned maintenace. I am the exception but I think the Army must raise it's expectations and care more for the troops. The bottom line is that we as Officers should re-examine our best asset and thats the men.
  10. Good point A_L. Your typical senior sapper/ private wouldn't get any where near organising such an expedition. There would be too many officers butting in to get his name in lights. I suppose your average SAC is probably more educated and mature.... unfortunately. Having said that the SAC was probably nearly 50 years old with his LS&GC and bar!!!

    Until my tour with the RAF I also thought the grass was greener but having 'lived the dream' I have found out its actually brown, mud!!

    PS. My brother is in the RAF!?!?!
  11. Wittman,

    Something I have never worked out

    Without the usual inter service slagging can someone explain to me why the Army always comes out second best in Defence?

    Why do RAF bases have swimming pools and better Gyms?

    Why are RAF and Navy MQ better than ours?

    Why do RAF Messes have twice the facilities for 1/2 the mess bill?

    Why is the RAF regt so blatantly over equipped for its role?

    What are we doing wrong or what are they doing right?

    I wouldn't agree. Inter service rivalry aside, what the others have said about base infrastructure is generally correct - and we can see what Supergarrisons bring. RAF messes do not have twice the facilities; having lived in one for months, I found it an un-homely, sterile place (with a fruit machine!) which no one treated as their home, but more like an IBIS hotel. There was an 'us and them' feel between mess members and staff and there wasn't much difference in its bar prices and the local boozer...

    Also, having been a visitor to more than one crab mess, never was I welcomed into it as it a visitor, more looked on like some intruder...

    The RAF Regiment has had its day, and is in the process of becoming the people who teach crabs how to shoot their rifle once a year and wear a respirator. And that's about it.

    What the RAF is doing is treating its pilots like gods and the remainder like civvies in uniform. They think their transport fleet is an airline and you could start a whole new thread on which service's helicopter pilots are the best (ask any Infantryman who's waited for a pick-up in NI)... In short, they are so small nowadays their days are numbered. It won't be long before the fast movers belong to the Navy and everything else is in the AAC, RLC or REME...

    Has it ever occured to you how a civvie airline can load a 747 full of civvies, all of whom don't necessarily speak English and launch it off the runway in less than 2 hours? Try asking Crab Air to load a VC10 (which will have been in existence for longer than even the grey-haired loadmaster) in 2 hours and send it on its way? And why do you have to put your rifle through the x-ray machine?

    The only thing that the RAF are doing right is cutting off their nose to spite their face!

    Crikey! I enjoyed writing that! Next!

  12. Sorry Adjt I must correct you on your history. The RAF was formed from the Navy and the Royal Engineer Ballon Section. Hoorah!!

    I do tend to remind the RAF I work with of this fact on a regular basis.
  13. That has bothered me for years. Maybe they think I'll sneak a pencil up the barrel :roll:
  14. I imagine the spotty SAC and his group are still trying to find Napal, had this been the Army a SNCO would have organised it and they would be going to Nepal and would have found it. :wink:
  15. Here, here - well said.