An aviation question for stab23

#2
Any chance for a short briefing on the background to the question for the uninitiated?
(I got the popcorn, beer, even a cornetto for cuddles...)
Thanks in advance.
 

Sixty

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#6
I suspect that the site may have seen the last of that particular ex SAS (V) trooper and all-round super pilot.

Now since I know the square root of sod all about flying, I'll piss off out of the aviation forum; a course of action that stab/loopy sadly failed to take.
 
#12
There used to be a guy in my unit that claimed he was a comercial pilot (but worked as an HGV driver) who later transfered to the SAS(R) as an attached MT guy who would claim to us he was badged shame he forgot about the other 2 guys that transfered with him, I wonder if its the same bloke (later turned out he wasnt a qualifed pilot either)
 
#13
BoundApprentice said:
There used to be a guy in my unit that claimed he was a comercial pilot (but worked as an HGV driver) who later transfered to the SAS(R) as an attached MT guy who would claim to us he was badged shame he forgot about the other 2 guys that transfered with him, I wonder if its the same bloke (later turned out he wasnt a qualifed pilot either)
Don't you try that "smoke and mirrors" stuff on us, green slime. :)
 
#14
I will admit I enjoyed the forensic dissection of stab, in spite of his spirited defence, in the face of the full onslaught of M'sieu Flash. That technical stuff was waaay over my swede though. It reminded me of the fly on a train scenario. Is it flying at 7 mph or 70 mph? Relative speeds or summink. That's why I ended up a thick plod.
 
#15
jinxy said:
In his absence, may I ask. Why don't helichopper pitots have ejeculation seats? genuine question like?.............:)
Think about it ;-)

No, in all seriousness a few types have been fitted with bang seats. The Russian KA50 for example. Quite a complex system of escape though. On pulling the handle, the sequence firstly initiates explosive charges on the rotor blade pins and the blades then fuck off (if this didnt happen and you had an upward firing seat, it could get messy) then after this, the seat sequence occurs as per a normal escape system.

The reasons why you dont see these systems routinely fitted to helicopters is as follows;

1. Cost. Very expensive to develop and fit.
2. Complexity. See above and you can imagine the safety systems required to ensure the blades dont inadvertently depart when you dont want them to.
3. Weight. Helicopters are very inefficient when it comes to using power because when below translational lift speeds, the whole cab is defying gravity by sole use of the power of the engines. To this end, the aircaft need to be as light as possible. Ejection systems are rather bulky items (rough weight of a seat is about 150kgs). Add in to that a reinforced cockpit floor and various other gubbins to support and fire the seat and you've just added a whole hunk of weight to the aircraft.
4. Military helicopters tend to fly low level. An escape system would need to be able to react very quickly and also assure that when the crew banged out, they were ejected in to a safe direction/orientation. If you're operating below 200' typically, tactical flying, you're asking a hell of a lot for the system.
5. It is a far better bet to not crash.
6. It is far better to stay with the aircraft if you do crash. Far easy/cheaper/practical to build an aircraft that is battle worthy and crash worthy. Make it so its not so susceptible to be taken down and if it does get taken down, build it so its able to crash safely. Equip the crew with seats that dive and stroke and absorb the crash forces and also make sure the impact is graduated by being absorbed by undercarriage, fuselage etc. A bit like the crash zones on new cars.
7. Ejection systems were developed because the speed of jets started to increase considerably post war. Conventional methods of bailing out didnt work so a system needed to be developed to get the crew away from the aircraft. In a helicopter, the max speed tends to be less than 160 knots so the issue of separating crew from cab isnt required.
 
#16
The-Lord-Flasheart said:
jinxy said:
In his absence, may I ask. Why don't helichopper pitots have ejeculation seats? genuine question like?.............:)
Think about it ;-)

No, in all seriousness a few types have been fitted with bang seats. The Russian KA50 for example. Quite a complex system of escape though. On pulling the handle, the sequence firstly initiates explosive charges on the rotor blade pins and the blades then fuck off (if this didnt happen and you had an upward firing seat, it could get messy) then after this, the seat sequence occurs as per a normal escape system.

The reasons why you dont see these systems routinely fitted to helicopters is as follows;

1. Cost. Very expensive to develop and fit.
2. Complexity. See above and you can imagine the safety systems required to ensure the blades dont inadvertently depart when you dont want them to.
3. Weight. Helicopters are very inefficient when it comes to using power because when below translational lift speeds, the whole cab is defying gravity by sole use of the power of the engines. To this end, the aircaft need to be as light as possible. Ejection systems are rather bulky items (rough weight of a seat is about 150kgs). Add in to that a reinforced cockpit floor and various other gubbins to support and fire the seat and you've just added a whole hunk of weight to the aircraft.
4. Military helicopters tend to fly low level. An escape system would need to be able to react very quickly and also assure that when the crew banged out, they were ejected in to a safe direction/orientation. If you're operating below 200' typically, tactical flying, you're asking a hell of a lot for the system.
5. It is a far better bet to not crash.
6. It is far better to stay with the aircraft if you do crash. Far easy/cheaper/practical to build an aircraft that is battle worthy and crash worthy. Make it so its not so susceptible to be taken down and if it does get taken down, build it so its able to crash safely. Equip the crew with seats that dive and stroke and absorb the crash forces and also make sure the impact is graduated by being absorbed by undercarriage, fuselage etc. A bit like the crash zones on new cars.
7. Ejection systems were developed because the speed of jets started to increase considerably post war. Conventional methods of bailing out didnt work so a system needed to be developed to get the crew away from the aircraft. In a helicopter, the max speed tends to be less than 160 knots so the issue of separating crew from cab isnt required.
I bet you feel better, now you got that of your chest......................Have you any other white papers you are working on? Please share. LMTAAO
 
#17
jinxy said:
BoundApprentice said:
There used to be a guy in my unit that claimed he was a comercial pilot (but worked as an HGV driver) who later transfered to the SAS(R) as an attached MT guy who would claim to us he was badged shame he forgot about the other 2 guys that transfered with him, I wonder if its the same bloke (later turned out he wasnt a qualifed pilot either)
Don't you try that "smoke and mirrors" stuff on us, green slime. :)
You cheecky tw@t green slime my arse I have some pride not a lot but some I am a fat trog mate
 
#18
The-Lord-Flasheart said:
jinxy said:
In his absence, may I ask. Why don't helichopper pitots have ejeculation seats? genuine question like?.............:)
Think about it ;-)

No, in all seriousness a few types have been fitted with bang seats. The Russian KA50 for example. Quite a complex system of escape though. On pulling the handle, the sequence firstly initiates explosive charges on the rotor blade pins and the blades then fuck off (if this didnt happen and you had an upward firing seat, it could get messy) then after this, the seat sequence occurs as per a normal escape system.

The reasons why you dont see these systems routinely fitted to helicopters is as follows;

1. Cost. Very expensive to develop and fit.
2. Complexity. See above and you can imagine the safety systems required to ensure the blades dont inadvertently depart when you dont want them to.
3. Weight. Helicopters are very inefficient when it comes to using power because when below translational lift speeds, the whole cab is defying gravity by sole use of the power of the engines. To this end, the aircaft need to be as light as possible. Ejection systems are rather bulky items (rough weight of a seat is about 150kgs). Add in to that a reinforced cockpit floor and various other gubbins to support and fire the seat and you've just added a whole hunk of weight to the aircraft.
4. Military helicopters tend to fly low level. An escape system would need to be able to react very quickly and also assure that when the crew banged out, they were ejected in to a safe direction/orientation. If you're operating below 200' typically, tactical flying, you're asking a hell of a lot for the system.
5. It is a far better bet to not crash.
6. It is far better to stay with the aircraft if you do crash. Far easy/cheaper/practical to build an aircraft that is battle worthy and crash worthy. Make it so its not so susceptible to be taken down and if it does get taken down, build it so its able to crash safely. Equip the crew with seats that dive and stroke and absorb the crash forces and also make sure the impact is graduated by being absorbed by undercarriage, fuselage etc. A bit like the crash zones on new cars.
7. Ejection systems were developed because the speed of jets started to increase considerably post war. Conventional methods of bailing out didnt work so a system needed to be developed to get the crew away from the aircraft. In a helicopter, the max speed tends to be less than 160 knots so the issue of separating crew from cab isnt required.
And of course all us sad fuckwits in the back would be a little upset to see the drivers suddenly vanish.
 
#20
CQMS said:
And of course all us sad fuckwits in the back would be a little upset to see the drivers suddenly vanish.
Fuck you lot, I'd be pulling yellow and black laughing at your impending death :D


marco_poloroid said:
Flash you're about to bust through 10,000. You really need to get out more.
I will once the broken wench is fixed.
 

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