An Army That Learns (US)

Discussion in 'Multinational HQ' started by Trip_Wire, Jul 14, 2008.

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  1. Trip_Wire

    Trip_Wire RIP

    An Army That Learns
    By David Ignatius
    Sunday, July 13, 2008; Page B07

    The U.S. Army has done something remarkable in its new history of the disastrous first 18 months of the American occupation of Iraq: It has conducted a rigorous self-critique of how bad decisions were made, so that the Army won't make them again.

    (I sure hope so!)

  2. Problem was not in the Army but in the civilian leadership... even General Shinseki... that corrupt SOB knew damned well we would have to occupy Iraq properly. Rumsfeld, Paul Bremmer, and an assortment of other assclowns were calling the shots.
  3. Didn't learn very much from Vietnam, did they?
  4. The only Organisation that has learned anything out of this mess is Haliburton and its subsiduaries, they've learned that creative accounting ie double charging for services rendered etc etc can make the CEO and shareholders a shit load of money at the US taxpayers and Militaries expense.
  5. msr

    msr LE

  6. Scoff all you like: the US are so much better at this sort of thing than we are.

    The days of giggling like schoolboys at the antics and supposed 'gung-hoism' of our core allies disappeared during the 'Charge of the Knights' debacle, and whilst your average ARRSEr doesn't want to hear it, we actually learn more from them than the reverse these days.
  7. yes, actually.
  8. Biped

    Biped LE Book Reviewer

    I have to agree on this - The US army in Iraq is how WE'D like to be - not man skills, but force quantity, backup, funding etc. The hearts and minds things we'd do just as well, if not better with proper manning.

    The only difference between the US style of ops and ours at this time is quantity of troops, aircraft and kit.

    You have to take your hats off to the septics because they are backing up their ops with plenty of money, and plenty of hearts and minds - and that IS a turnaround for them.

    We only wish that we had a proper government ie: one not full of retarded anti-British commies.
  9. That would account for the astonishing success they have enjoyed in the occupation of Iraq, then.
  10. Ah; you are unaware of the "three block" concept.

    Also unaware that the US destroyed the Iraqi Army which fought a conventional campaign unlike the VietCong; any major battle featuring the VC / NVA was won decisively by Uncle Sam; that the "surge" is bringing about major reductions in criminal activity and deaths caused by the Insurgency; that there is now a (rudimentary) democratic process; etc.
  11. BiscuitsAB

    BiscuitsAB LE Moderator

    Sooooooooooooo when does your green card come through? :wink:
  12. Exactly - any major conventional fighting was won by the US. the asymmetric fighting was won by the Other Lot. The intervention ended up strengthening Communist states, just as the invasion of Iraq has strengthened Iran.

    Vietnam was fought as part of the US policy of containing China, unaware that the Vietnamese hated and feared the Chinese and had been fighting them for thousands of years. Iraq was invaded as part of the US policy of fighting radical Islam, regardless of the fact that the greatest enemy of radical Islam and Bin Laden in the region was Saddam.
  13. Not China, the Soviet Union. The Soviets were always North Vietnam's primary military and economic supporters. Hardly a mistake, either.
  14. Absolutely true, the US Army has learned a lot, albeit the hard way, while we've lost whatever reputation we had as supposedly being the best at COIN. That doesn't mean they won't still amke mistakes and we won't have successes but we have no right to lecture them. That said I'm a bit concerned about some of the writing in US press and media that Iraq has been woon and the insurgency defeated, let's not overdo the hubris just yet
  15. I seem to recall that the NVA/VC were just as unsuccessful in the "asymmetric fighting" as they were in the large, set piece, battles. The Tet Offensive was deemed a military failure by the North Vietnamese but was turned into a communist success by elements of the US and World Press and an extremely well organised anti-Vietnam War movement. The US lost the Vietnam War in the US and Western Europe not in SE Asia.