An appology

#1
Before one of the American contributors jumps in, I thought this might be of interest to some readers:

This Letter of Apology was written by Lieutenant General Chuck Pitman, US Marine Corps, Retired:

"For good and ill, the Iraqi prisoner abuse mess will remain an issue On the one hand, right thinking Americans will harbor the stupidity of the actions while on the other hand, political glee will take control and fashion this minor event into some modern day massacre.

I humbly offer my opinion here:

I am sorry that the last seven times we Americans took up arms and sacrificed the blood of our youth, it was in the defense of Muslims (Bosnia, Kosovo, Gulf War 1, Kuwait, etc.).
I am sorry that no such call for an apology upon the extremists came after 9/11.
I am sorry that all of the murderers on 9/11 were Islamic Arabs.
I am sorry that most Arabs and Muslims have to live in squalor under savage dictatorships.
I am sorry that their leaders squander their wealth.
I am sorry that their governments breed hate for the US in their religious schools, mosques, and government-controlled media.
I am sorry that Yassar Arafat was kicked out of every Arab country and high-jacked the Palestinian "cause."
I am sorry that no other Arab country will take in or offer more than a token amount of financial help to those same Palestinians.
I am sorry that the USA has to step in and be the biggest financial supporter of poverty stricken Arabs while the insanely wealthy Arabs blame the USA for all their problems.
I am sorry that our own left wing, our media, and our own brainwashed masses do not understand any of this (from the misleading vocal elements of our society like radical professors, CNN and the NY TIMES).
I am sorry the United Nations scammed the poor people of Iraq out of the "food for oil" money so they could get rich while the common folk suffered.
I am sorry that some Arab governments pay the families of homicide bombers upon their death.
I am sorry that those same bombers are brainwashed thinking they will receive 72 virgins in "paradise."
I am sorry that the homicide bombers think pregnant women, babies, children, the elderly and other noncombatant civilians are legitimate targets.
I am sorry that our troops die to free more Arabs from the gang rape rooms and the filling of mass graves of dissidents of their own making.
I am sorry that Muslim extremists have killed more Arabs than any other group.
I am sorry that foreign trained terrorists are trying to seize control of Iraq and return it to a terrorist state.
I am sorry we don't drop a few dozen Daisy cutters on Fallujah.
I am sorry every time terrorists hide they find a convenient "Holy Site."
I am sorry they didn't apologize for driving a jet into the World Trade Center that collapsed and severely damaged Saint Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church - one of our Holy Sites.
I am sorry they didn't apologize for flight 93 and 175, the USS Cole, the embassy bombings, the murders and beheadings of Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl, etc....etc!
I am sorry Michael Moore is American; he could feed a medium sized village in Africa.
America will get past this latest absurdity. We will punish those responsible because that is what we do.

We hang out our dirty laundry for the entire world to see. We move on. That's one of the reasons we are hated so much. We don't hide this stuff like all those Arab countries that are now demanding an apology.

Deep down inside, when most Americans saw this reported in the news, we were like - so what? We lost hundreds and made fun of a few prisoners. Sure , it was wrong, sure, it dramatically hurts our cause, but until captured we were trying to kill these same prisoners. Now we're supposed to wring our hands because a few were humiliated?

Our compassion is tempered with the vivid memories of our own people killed, mutilated and burnt amongst a joyous crowd of celebrating Fallujahans.

If you want an apology from this American, you're going to have a long wait!

You have a better chance of finding those seventy-two virgins.

Chuck Pitman

Lieutenant General
US Marine Corps (Retired)

Semper
This appology has been widely circulating amongst the US military, Neo Cons and Defense contractors here in Iraq. In terms of starting some dialogue off, perhaps some simple questions need to be asked:

* Who is Chuck Pitman "appologizing" to here? His comments seem to be addressed to his"fellow americans". I have ( thankfully, yet to see this precious prose in Farsi)

* Are the americans capable of any other international dialogue apart from that which at best comes from behind kevlar and oakleys, or more frequently is transmitted in Texan on the Fox Channel, and at worse is transmitted from 32,000 feet without any visual verification??

* Does this sort of rhetoric from a "leader", serve to promote wider understanding between disparate peoples, or merely to retrench existing xenophobia in the people of the worlds greatest superpower??

* What ammunition does Chuck provide "foreign fighters" and their fellow travellers in Al Jazira, when this sort of thing gets into the hands of them and the French liberal press??

Discuss.......
I have to close down and move now before the AC130 closes in> What ever happened to gunboat diplomacy?? :wink:
 
#2
First, "Neo-con" is a fantasy of fanatic Liberals. There is no such thing.

Second, is there a real Pitman? or is this another widely circulated by e-mail "fantasy" letter?
 
#4
RCSignals said:
Second, is there a real Pitman? or is this another widely circulated by e-mail "fantasy" letter?


Chuck is the one in the middle......

perhaps the photo was taken by BB in Area 51??
 
#6
Chuck looks a little like Roy Rogers
 
#7
Our Chuck has made some very valid points in his letter - it's a shame that he had to take the edge off it by flippant comments about MM and being slightly melodramatic.

Nonetheless he has made some points which are seldom mentioned in an international press that are, by and large, anti american foreign policy (and rightly so on occasion).

The Arab nations have never covered themselves with glory in any significant international issue - the Palestinians for example; loathed and reviled by a significant proportion of the Arabs, yet used conveniently as a stick to beat the Americans with. Brother Arab helping brother Arab - unlikely I think.

Additionally, it is not PC to discuss whether Islam and sharia law are a suitable lifestyle for a modern world. Islam is, like most religions, fairly primitive if taken at face value and not discussed or debated. The trouble is that to debate it could be a capital offence in a host of Arab countries.

It seems to me that Islam and western values will never be comfortable bed fellows but that we, particularly in this country, are terrified to criticise them. Criticism is healthy, natural and a part of civilised politics. It's also a two way street; Muslims (in the UK and wherever else) will cheerfully deride and criticise whatever they choose (indeed they will create the most fantatstic, banal and idiotic criticisms to aim at the west) - yet we tremble in our boots for fear of prsecution and being labelled Islamophobic when we see something that is abhorent to us and want to criticise it.

It is time to stop the relentless march of the PC brigade, take stock and allow the voice of reason and sense to take control again. If we think it's wrong then let's criticise - provided it's well constructed and sincere criticism; not the ranting of the extremist.
 
#8
tattybadger said:
Nonetheless he has made some points which are seldom mentioned in an international press that are, by and large, anti american foreign policy (and rightly so on occasion).
anti American foreign policy in the respect that American foreign policy isn't hard line enough.
 
#10
An American who understands irony (is that an oxymoron?)!

:twisted:
 
#11
RCSignals said:
First, "Neo-con" is a fantasy of fanatic Liberals. There is no such thing.
Neoconservative is a term generally accepted within the international relations and political community to represent those who subscribe to classic realist theories. In its modern derivation in the US this is seen in those expounding a unilateral approach to US foreign policy, as opposed to the Wilsonian liberal approach favoured by the Clinton administration and the early years of Bush's first term.
 
#12
chimera said:
RCSignals said:
First, "Neo-con" is a fantasy of fanatic Liberals. There is no such thing.
Neoconservative is a term generally accepted within the international relations and political community to represent those who subscribe to classic realist theories. In its modern derivation in the US this is seen in those expounding a unilateral approach to US foreign policy, as opposed to the Wilsonian liberal approach favoured by the Clinton administration and the early years of Bush's first term.
"Neo-con" as presently applied is a term revived by fanatic liberals and applied to the current US administration as a negative spin on their policies.

"Neoconservatism" is not "classic", nor "conservative" and was the failed brain child of an odd-ball minority.
 
#13
RCSignals said:
chimera said:
RCSignals said:
First, "Neo-con" is a fantasy of fanatic Liberals. There is no such thing.
Neoconservative is a term generally accepted within the international relations and political community to represent those who subscribe to classic realist theories. In its modern derivation in the US this is seen in those expounding a unilateral approach to US foreign policy, as opposed to the Wilsonian liberal approach favoured by the Clinton administration and the early years of Bush's first term.
"Neo-con" as presently applied is a term revived by fanatic liberals and applied to the current US administration as a negative spin on their policies.

"Neoconservatism" is not "classic", nor "conservative" and was the failed brain child of an odd-ball minority.
It is not negative spin, the term is an accepted one in the field of political science. As I said, the neo-cons hold views that in the study of power politics would be termed classic realist or neo-realist. This is not positive or negative spin, just correct terminolgy.

Not a bad debate for ARRSE!
 
#14
RCSignals said:
chimera said:
RCSignals said:
First, "Neo-con" is a fantasy of fanatic Liberals. There is no such thing.
Neoconservative is a term generally accepted within the international relations and political community to represent those who subscribe to classic realist theories. In its modern derivation in the US this is seen in those expounding a unilateral approach to US foreign policy, as opposed to the Wilsonian liberal approach favoured by the Clinton administration and the early years of Bush's first term.
"Neo-con" as presently applied is a term revived by fanatic liberals and applied to the current US administration as a negative spin on their policies.

"Neoconservatism" is not "classic", nor "conservative" and was the failed brain child of an odd-ball minority.
A fanatic liberal eh? An interesting picture is being conjured up here!!! :p
 
#15
#16
Iraqi DMI;

Some interesting stuff in the btinternet.com link, but nothing about Osama bin Laden being trained, in Scotland, by the British SAS, at the request of CIA.

I've read elsewhere that ObL & Co. were a CIA asset, but I've never previously heard any intimation of a UK connection.
 
#18
The Lord Flasheart said:
OBL was successful, stands to reason that he was trained by other than US resources. Meow. :roll:
Yes, but remember, Britain taught the US everything they know about Intelligence and special ops.
 
#19
And they were dumb enough to listen! UK int equates to four chaps in Oxbridge who drive a Citroen 2 CV and own a collection of 'Folk music' CDs. US int is twice the population of France with more assests at hand than Europe/NATO and have more film titles to their name than the Rocky series. Whos the chod? :wink:
 
#20
The Lord Flasheart said:
And they were dumb enough to listen! UK int equates to four chaps in Oxbridge who drive a Citroen 2 CV and own a collection of 'Folk music' CDs. US int is twice the population of France with more assests at hand than Europe/NATO and have more film titles to their name than the Rocky series. Whos the chod? :wink:
If you didn't hear on the nightly NEWS the US Army has admitted to it's super secret eye-spy spec-ops team or Bde, created because the CIA is too busy.
 

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