Ammunition Technical Competentcy/Evaluation

Discussion in 'RLC' started by GasmaskWilf, Mar 22, 2005.

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  1. With all the posts mentioning inexperience, inability and alleged lowering of standards, should there be a system of evaluation and requalification across the AT trade?

    For each level of AT, regardless of post/unit, there could be a standardised system of examinations to maintain (ensure) the highest possible levels of ebility and professionalism. Some of the areas that could be covered include, but are not limited to, Licensing (IEDD & CMD), a spotter exam, reference tests and assessed Unit inspections. Perhaps even BCMD and theory exams.

    What would be the point in all this and when would we find the time?

    1. Well, as already mentioned, standards for one thing need to be picked up in some cases and maintained in others.

    2. Skill fade, particularly if you happen to have spent the last two posting stuck doing the same thing day in day out.

    3. Ability to ensure that ATs are keeping themselves up to date (changes in procedures, legislation, etc).

    4. A measure to assess suitability for promotion.

    5. A rounded, improved employability across the trade.

    6. A better trade would give additional strength to the pursual of Qualification/Specialist Pay. If you don't pass your evaluations within a given time frame - you don't get the additional pay.

    How could it be administered? Perhaps it could be a job for PAnTO and the command SAT if and when he is established. The exams and non-practicals could all be electronic with the practical assesments filtered into the current systems.

    Okay there are draw backs and yes licensing is 6 monthly but , for the purposes of annual assesments an individual would only need to pass it once a year.
     
  2. I'm all for standards, but quite frankly can't be arrsed to put that much chasing into it. Sorry
     
  3. Agree, can't be arrsed to chase it, but more importantly, can't be arsed to do regular IEDD, CMD, BCMD, PAD, SP, AR & JSP 482 assessments! :oops:

    The Regt often struggles to have enough operators in license for JS IEDD duties - if people started to have to keep passing CMD & JSP 482 assessments as well, then what would we do? stop inspecting units because no-one in the Tp had passed their 482 test? Refuse safe-to-moves and stop D4s from police stations? :roll:
     
  4. What a load of b******s, when would you fit in any work around these tests, not to mention the extra stress nobody needs.

    Would you like egg op's to requalify on ration assasinating every couple of weeks, or drivers to re sit their driving test regularly, we already have licencing and the rest of your work should be checked by the next man up the chain.

    The result of this would be creeping excellence and nobody needs that.

    A measure of this would be the number of accidents/incidents caused by AT's. And don't let the recent compensation/whinging b***ard rise fool you. We are, believe it or not, not killing ourselves or anybody else on a regular basis.
     
  5. Great idea, but flawed at the outset. No time !!!

    In my day people were proud to get things right first time. You willingly spent hours of your free time reading publications, doing research and talking to more experienced people to get as much knowledge as you could :D . We were all pulling at the bit to be given more responsibility and some of the more demanding tasks. I belive this is called being a competent, proficient proffesional :!: :!: :!:
    Licensing was a challenge to be faced 8O , to prove how good you were and that you deserved to go out on the street to create havoc 8) . Not a chore or a frightning test of ineptness :evil: .

    If you f*cked up you were ridden with guilt :oops: and determined not to let it happen again. If you failed licensing you were gutted beyond remorse :cry: , not relieved that you could now get some time off :cry: . Not to mention the riddicule you would face in Pigsick, NEODS or the such like :oops: .

    The people suffering pull through need to acknowledge that they are part of the problem and stop blaming the people above them :twisted: . Get off their own arrses and get some learning done :!:
     
  6. General Melchett

    General Melchett LE Moderator

    Wilf to answer your questions some things are already in place.

    1. Well, as already mentioned, standards for one thing need to be picked up in some cases and maintained in others.

    Personal pride.


    2. Skill fade, particularly if you happen to have spent the last two posting stuck doing the same thing day in day out.

    See your RCMO with you PPP.


    3. Ability to ensure that ATs are keeping themselves up to date (changes in procedures, legislation, etc).

    First sight files, TABs

    4. A measure to assess suitability for promotion.

    6 mothly appraisals and CRs.

    5. A rounded, improved employability across the trade.

    See 2

    6. A better trade would give additional strength to the pursual of Qualification/Specialist Pay. If you don't pass your evaluations within a given time frame - you don't get the additional pay.

    Any penalty other than pay if not up to standard? Otherwise thet trade will not be any better off.
     
  7. Melchett & Dibble have nailed that then. Well done.
     
  8. I take it none of you are old enough to remember the compulsory continuance training we used to have to do. 4 times a year, different subject covered each time with exams at the end of each one.

    First Sight Files - Great, but what about when you've been away for a period of months? How can it be assertained that the information, particularly legal stuff has actually sunk in?

    6 monthly appraisals and CRs have nether been a totally reliable method of assessing Tech ability. How up to date are your log books?

    Finally as for it being a load of b******s, something about being no time, Make time. All the assessments could run over a 12 month period with a dayor 1/2 here or there. Bit like doing PT, ITDs and such like. I'm sure you'd find the time if passing meant extra dosh!
     
  9. General Melchett

    General Melchett LE Moderator

    Actually I do remember the compulsory continuance training. They were "special".

    Do any tech trades in other corps have continuance training. Does that REME AT know what he's doing with the helicopter?

    The 6 monthly appraisal and CR system are still a good test of ability. Yout line manager or employing officer should know your strength and weakness. What better test of skill than to if you are doing the job to a high enough standard.

    The individual should still take on the responsibility for keeping up to date, looking for knowledge. Spoon feeding is what new ATs seem to expect and it winds me up.

    I know where you are coming from, but rather than continuation training something like a PATO tech briefing which covers new ammunition sytems, publications, legal stuff, future AT needs and such like. Held every quarter over the space of a week all ATs to attend.
     
  10. I know let's just make the PANTO Tech Conference a CONFERENCE instead of a sodding briefing.

    And what happened to PANTO Technical News? That actually is quite informative sometimes.

    Hey Sir Rowley how about you volunteering to forfit the next Pigsick and do a Tech news !!!
     
  11. Wilf. have you nothing better to do at 0330 hrs in the morning than put the trade to rights? If you have trouble sleeping I can recommend JSP 482. Not only is it toss, it is toss...
     
  12. General Melchett

    General Melchett LE Moderator

    You can get the internet overseas too. Maybe Wilf has a cushy posting?
     
  13. This is all nonsense, the individuals we require to have the greatest knowledge and understanding of the rules and regulations are our Senior ATs.

    It is their job to ensure the junior ATs working for them have the material and the opportunity to study it. If we cant trust our more responsible ATs to keep on top of the latest nob regs from IE(A), PANTO or other bureaucratic body then we cant expect any other AT to either.

    As for linking specialist pay to ANOTHER round of half arsed testing, well lets start with the simple stuff, BPFA, CFT then maybe ITDs 1-6 if we make it through that how about licensing? :twisted: Now there's another can of worms for the permanently whining non EOD ATs.
     
  14. Mover, would answer the thread for them, but can't as not a user of their forum! They seem to have identified it correctly as an SS11 MMA, albeit minus the wire spools. They have given correct advice i.e. call local plod who will call EOD (but you won't get a reward!)
    P.S. some of the technical stuff some of them have posted is complete b*llocks! :roll: