Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by HVM_Boy, Nov 5, 2003.
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not a dickbird maybe it was a yellow crayon fired from a blowpipe by a rag head with big lungs, or could be the latest chinise stuff, croos between HE and AP i think something like PF-98.....
Assuming that the crew were "patroling" Baghdad with some form of Mk 1 Eyeball (hatches open or accompanied by satelliting dismounts) you'll have a better understanding of the incident with witness statements. If they were trying to patrol an urban area without infantry or topcover - the type of weapon system is going to be largely irrelevant given the tactics.
The firing signature, location of firing point (inside building, outside) and distance from contact point will give clues as to what the miracle anti-armour weapon was.
My money is on the crayon theory.
I'd say it depends on what type of armour the tank had rather than the weapon used. The yanks have some silly stuff designed for tank battles that are effective against certain tank rounds, but useless against smaller munitions. Reminiscent to me of ally honeycomb armour against a traditional ruskie anti tank round fired from a rifle from WW2 that could pierce 3 inch of traditional armour at 800 yards. I bet none of the 'modern' armies would think that anyone would try one of those.
Switching to spotter mode - the FSU Great Patriotic War anti-tank rifle (PTR, PTRD)fired the 14.5mm round that is still used the 14.5 mm HMG fitted to the BTR, BRDM and other such vehicles. So in theory modern armour design should take it into consideration.
I agree that it should in theory, but if they are armoured against HE RPG stuff, maybe they don't.
Looking at the hole in the picture, short of a half inch drill, or a very unlikely DU round, I can't think of anything that would do that. Even an armour piercing round would be unlikely to make a hole that size, unless it was a rifle round, 14.5 mil as you say, and if it did penetrate it can only be the armour at fault.
I wouldn't put money on it being a 30mm DU round or a lucky 50.cal.
Definitely not a DU round, which is why I said very unlikely, and I wouldn't think a 50 would do anything but scratch the paint off, but an armour piercing 14.5 as we said might. If it's just below the cuppola the armour isn't 'as' strong, but I'd say more than sufficient.
Looking at the flaking pattern of the paint, the irregular shape hole on the exterior face of the metal and the hole itself - looks unlikely to be HEAT but I'm not a metalergimythingist. Send it to someone at RMCS Shrivenham they'll spend boxes of kleenex of personal excitement over the challenge.
You'll probably find someone had a ND inside the turret with a Bosch Powerdrill whilst putting up pictures of his favourite Big Mac.
More details about a possible explanation here:
High velocity missile
It's a scary capability to be sure. That tank crew was lucky. So far though, whether through design or in this case, luck, no American lives have been lost in the M1 Abrams due to enemy fire.
This is obiously a qualified remark as there were fratricide (I know, I've heard it all before - before everyone starts in) losses during Desert Storm.
Bub mate, you being an old septic serviceman ( ), how do you see the situation going? Similar to Vietnam or more of a Northern Ireland scenario. Whats the feeling over at GI jargon?
(I'm still able to log in but cant be arrsed as it has become an LNV appreciation site).
I'm not so old as to remember Vietnam (I was six when it was all done). But I'd have to say it could be a combination of the two, leaning more towards the situation in N Ireland. I'm not as up on what down in N Ireland as I'd like, but it seems to be that would be the case. One of the similarities to Vietnam is that you sometimes could't tell the sheep from the wolves.
A lot of VN vets here don't agree that the current situation is anyway similar to Vietnam.
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