American torturers in Afghanistan

#1
Robert Fisk in yesterday's Independent:

"Torture works," an American special forces major – now, needless to say, a colonel – boasted to a colleague of mine a couple of years ago. It seems that the CIA and its hired thugs in Afghanistan and Iraq still believe this. There is no evidence that rendition and beatings and waterboarding and the insertion of metal pipes into men's anuses – and, of course, the occasional torturing to death of detainees – has ended. Why else would the CIA admit in January that it had destroyed videotapes of prisoners being almost drowned – the "waterboarding" technique – before they could be seen by US investigators?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/f...re-does-not-work-as-history-shows-777213.html
Where are current US torture cellars in Afghanistan? That's partly a rhetorical question because it would be unwise, if morally laudable, to post the address on ARRSE. But that raises the question: what is the proper procedure should a British soldier serving in Afghanistan discover the US torturing a prisoner? Or learn from a US soldier that torture had occurred or was occurring? Or gain such intelligence from an Afghan civilian? Or find the marks of American torture on someone's body? Pass the info up the chain of command and leave it at that? Is there a written procedure? What's to stop the info from being buried?

Because if Fisk - a respected journalist of the old school - is right, the British public needs to know about it. The Americans, as they go into an election, need to know also.

How does the system work for reporting American torturers in Afghanistan?
 
#2
annakey said:
the insertion of metal pipes into men's anuses
I know a couple of blokes who'd pay good money for that.

annakey said:
what is the proper procedure should a British soldier serving in Afghanistan discover the US torturing a prisoner?
Stuff like this is covered in basic training. The correct procedure is:-

1) Locate the person in charge.
2) Ask if any help is required in restraining the person being 'questioned'
3) If no, arrange detainees in an interesting pile and pose for photos:-

 
#3
annakey said:
How does the system work for reporting American torturers in Afghanistan?
Why don't you f*ck off out there and find out.

May I suggest you wear a large dayglo jacket with "I hate the coalition forces" written on it and stick an IR strobe to your head so that any hellfire firing choppers can spot you at night.
 
#6
annakey said:
Because if Fisk - a respected journalist of the old school - is right, the British public needs to know about it. The Americans, as they go into an election, need to know also.

How does the system work for reporting American torturers in Afghanistan?
Annakey
As a good Comrade, what would you have done about these lads?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NKVD

The left-leaning media in the UK (the mighty George Orwell excepted) thought they were doing the right thing. What would you have done?
 
#7
niner_domestic said:
Annakey, why not bleat all over Amir Attaran and company, you're a year behind in the trend to be a do-gooder. Already done.
Thanks for that. I didn't realise the Canadians had been spilling the beans. But what about British troops? What are their formal obligations? Is it "Preserve the special relationship at all costs chaps!" I bet that's not legal.
 
#8
Schleswig-Holstein said:
annakey said:
Because if Fisk - a respected journalist of the old school - is right, the British public needs to know about it. The Americans, as they go into an election, need to know also.

How does the system work for reporting American torturers in Afghanistan?
Annakey
As a good Comrade, what would you have done about these lads?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NKVD

The left-leaning media in the UK (the mighty George Orwell excepted) thought they were doing the right thing. What would you have done?
Send them for a chat and a nice cup of tea with the Padre?
 
#9
_007_ said:
annakey said:
How does the system work for reporting American torturers in Afghanistan?
Why don't you f*ck off out there and find out.

May I suggest you wear a large dayglo jacket with "I hate the coalition forces" written on it and stick an IR strobe to your head so that any hellfire firing choppers can spot you at night.
I think you should ride into an Afghan market place, sitting on a braying jackass, backwards, wearing a large dayglo jacket with "I support, appease and cover-up the actions of American torturers" written on it. How about that?

 
#10
annakey said:
Fisk - a respected journalist of the old school
Balls he is. Granted, he used to make reasonable sense, but now he's virtually a parody of the self-loathing western journalist, who writes articles about why John Malkovitch wants to kill him.

My favourite Robert Fisk quote, though, is this:

And – I realised – there were all the Afghan men and boys who had attacked me who should never have done so but whose brutality was entirely the product of others, of us – of we who had armed their struggle against the Russians and ignored their pain and laughed at their civil war and then armed and paid them again for the "War for Civilisation" just a few miles away and then bombed their homes and ripped up their families and called them "collateral damage".
Even when he's dragged from his car by an Afghan mob, , stoned, beaten and robbed : it's still the West's fault!
http://www.robert-fisk.com/articles1.htm
 
#11
I would tend to agree that torturing people to death is not the ideal behaviour we expect from our forces. Savagery breeds more savagery.
 
#12
Accoding to an article in the Washington Post last week,the US torturing of detaines was carried out at an unamed airbase in Thailand.

The videotape of the torture was held in the US Embassy in Bangkok and was destroyed before the then CIA station chief retired in 2005.
 
#13
Tom_of_Bedlam said:
annakey said:
Fisk - a respected journalist of the old school
Balls he is. Granted, he used to make reasonable sense, but now he's virtually a parody of the self-loathing western journalist, who writes articles about why John Malkovitch wants to kill him.

My favourite Robert Fisk quote, though, is this:

And – I realised – there were all the Afghan men and boys who had attacked me who should never have done so but whose brutality was entirely the product of others, of us – of we who had armed their struggle against the Russians and ignored their pain and laughed at their civil war and then armed and paid them again for the "War for Civilisation" just a few miles away and then bombed their homes and ripped up their families and called them "collateral damage".
Even when he's dragged from his car by an Afghan mob, , stoned, beaten and robbed : it's still the West's fault!
http://www.robert-fisk.com/articles1.htm
I agree that's cringingly Hampstead liberal. Martin Amis, a loathsome but brilliant little man, reports a better approach:-

It was mid-October 2001, and night was closing in on the border city of Peshawar, in Pakistan, as my friend - a reporter and political man of letters - approached a market stall and began to haggle over a batch of T-shirts bearing the likeness of Osama bin Laden. It is forbidden, in Sunni Islam, to depict the human form, lest it lead to idolatry; but here was Osama's lordly visage, on display and on sale right outside the mosque. The mosque now emptied, after evening prayers, and my friend was very suddenly and very thoroughly surrounded by a shoving, jabbing, jeering brotherhood: the young men of Peshawar...

'Why you want these? You like Osama?'

I can almost hear the tone of the reply I would have given - reedy, wavering, wholly defeatist. As for the substance, it would have been the reply of the cornered trimmer, and intended, really, just to give myself time to seek the foetal position and fold my hands over my face. Something like: 'Well I quite like him, but I think he overdid it a bit in New York.' No, that would not have served. What was needed was boldness and brilliance. The exchange continued:

'You like Osama?'

'Of course. He is my brother.'

'He is your brother?'

'All men are my brothers.'

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,1868732,00.html#article_continue
Anyway, what about these standing instructions, if any, for British troops serving in Afghanistan to shop Septic torture Johnnies? They shouldn't be allowed to get away with it. Does esprit de corp keep them off the hook? It would be shame if _007_'s braying was permitted to drown the discussion.
 
#14
Le_addeur_noir said:
Accoding to an article in the Washington Post last week,the US torturing of detaines was carried out at an unamed airbase in Thailand.

The videotape of the torture was held in the US Embassy in Bangkok and was destroyed before the then CIA station chief retired in 2005.
Cheers. All this stuff is scattered about the internet, in academic journals, charity archives, UN reports, etc. Oddly enough, Fox News researchers have failed to stitch it into a coherent narrative for prime time transmission. A further reason, perhaps, why British troops - decent people who wouldn’t 'waterboard' a hill farmer in a million years - may not feel encouraged to stick the wretched Septics in the dock.
 
#15
Annakey, if you want REAL torture, read 'Rack, Rope and Red-Hot Pinchers' by Geoffrey Abbott who is a Yeoman Warder (retd.)

As you will see, the methods are definately in a class of their own.
 
#16
annakey said:
_007_ said:
annakey said:
How does the system work for reporting American torturers in Afghanistan?
Why don't you f*ck off out there and find out.

May I suggest you wear a large dayglo jacket with "I hate the coalition forces" written on it and stick an IR strobe to your head so that any hellfire firing choppers can spot you at night.
I think you should ride into an Afghan market place, sitting on a braying jackass, backwards, wearing a large dayglo jacket with "I support, appease and cover-up the actions of American torturers" written on it. How about that?

When w*nkers like you actually gob off as much over the torture carried out by the muslim extremists I might have time for you, but your sort never does.
 
#17
annakey said:
Because if Fisk - a respected journalist of the old school - is right, the British public needs to know about it. The Americans, as they go into an election, need to know also.
There were some interesting articles in "Private Eye" about how Fisk was writing stories in Iraq in 2003, claiming to have seen things when he was a fair few miles away at the time (as part of the S. Hussein PR package tour) - the whistle was blown by one of his colleagues.

Now granted, he did some decent reportage on Lebanon in the 1990s (exposing some of the more gratuituous porkies of at least one side) but on the other hand he's been going a bit Pilger lately; partisan, and gullible with it.

You're only as good as your last story...
 
#18
[
"Torture works," Yep no doubt it works, but may sting a bit

Where are current US torture cellars in Afghanistan? round the back of the tent/building/shack they just caught them inThat's partly a rhetorical question because it would be unwise, if morally laudable, to post the address on ARRSE. But that raises the question: what is the proper procedure should a British soldier serving in Afghanistan discover the US torturing a prisoner?typical yank, bloody doing it all wrong, if you insert this you can realy get results Or learn from a US soldier that torture had occurred or was occurring? we call it the defence budgetOr gain such intelligence from an Afghan civilian?Oh there so trustworthy, those blokes with the AK47 and a towel on their swede Or find the marks of American torture on someone's body?what they sign there work? Pass the info up the chain of command and leave it at that?Ere Sarge look at the state of this fecker (passed up the chain of command ticked) Is there a written procedure?Page1 ask prisoner question, Page2 no answer, beat/insert/slap etc, Page3 ask question again, repeat page two until prisoner expires/give answer What's to stop the info from being buried?Its usually the prisoner they bury

:twisted:
 
#19
Robert Fiske - the inaccuracy of his polemics created the verb to "Fiske", meaning to demolish a rant by detailing the numerous false statements, lies and bollocks in general on a line by line basis.

He is about as accurate about anything concerning the US as the Daily Hate is with anything to do with refugees/asylum seekers/gypsies
 
#20
Torture works," an American special forces major – now, needless to say, a colonel – boasted to a colleague of mine a couple of years ago. It seems that the CIA and its hired thugs in Afghanistan and Iraq still believe this. There is no evidence that rendition and beatings and waterboarding and the insertion of metal pipes into men's anuses – and, of course, the occasional torturing to death of detainees – has ended.
Feck me, that's got to be the most tenuous link I've seen in a newspaper for a while.

'A friend of a friend said this...' 'It may still be happening...' Then a GCSE essay on the morals of torture, and some good old Independent USA-bashing.

What is the country coming to with standards of journalism like this?
 

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