American Law Enforcement

#5
redinjun said:
Aah, I see the delicacies of sarcasm are lost on you dear boy!
I did'nt realise you were being sarcastic; I thought you were being a cnut.

My bad! :twisted:
 
#6
Oh no, I quite like the septics! I just thought this was classic deep middle america up to it's old tricks!!!

Anyway, I'm not anywhere near useful or entertaining enough to be a c........
 
#7
Oh shit, I forgot to mow or water the garden, and there is an unmistakable brown mark right in the middle oh shit oh shit... they are gonna come and get me 8O
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#8
American justice is not blind, it knows who the old ladies are, and who the chief's of staff for the vice president are.

What scares me most about the US, is its mandatory sentences for crimes. There's a poor 21 year old boy in jail over there getting a BJ from a 15 year old whilst he was 17. Just another 17 years to do on his mandatory minimum 20 year sentence...
 
#9
Mr Happy said:
American justice is not blind, it knows who the old ladies are, and who the chief's of staff for the vice president are.

What scares me most about the US, is its mandatory sentences for crimes. There's a poor 21 year old boy in jail over there getting a BJ from a 15 year old whilst he was 17. Just another 17 years to do on his mandatory minimum 20 year sentence...
As opposed to peadophiles being let out early after raping children? And then doing it again?

I'm not blind to the faults of our Septic cousins. But we are really not in any position to take the p1ss.

Glass houses, old boy.
 
#10
Well, obviously both nations have faults riddling them.

However, this thread is specifically about US justice etc., and a good point is made about the mandatory sentences. They just don't allow for any sensible judgements. If you are honest with yourself, would you consider a 17 year old guy getting a BJ from a 15 year old girl a criminal act requiring minimum 20 years? Would you even consider it a criminal act?
 
#11
redinjun said:
Oh no, I quite like the septics! I just thought this was classic deep middle america up to it's old tricks!!!

Anyway, I'm not anywhere near useful or entertaining enough to be a c........
Fair one! :D
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#12
Werewolf said:
Mr Happy said:
American justice is not blind, it knows who the old ladies are, and who the chief's of staff for the vice president are.

What scares me most about the US, is its mandatory sentences for crimes. There's a poor 21 year old boy in jail over there getting a BJ from a 15 year old whilst he was 17. Just another 17 years to do on his mandatory minimum 20 year sentence...
As opposed to peadophiles being let out early after raping children? And then doing it again?

I'm not blind to the faults of our Septic cousins. But we are really not in any position to take the p1ss.

Glass houses, old boy.
WW, firstly both us and our less educated cousings let folks out of prison early. Sometimes in error, sometimes by mistake.

20 year minimum sentences or mandatory charges of rape if the age difference takes the girl under a certain age if you are in (name your southern state of choice here) are madness.

I love americans, I think they're great but their politicians (and i say this having gone on a stag/bachelor party with a senator) are after nothing more than votes, money and power.

Reference glass houses... you make the mistake of assuming that I can't criticise the UK - I can most certainly and often do. But not on this issue.
 
#13
The_Goon said:
Well, obviously both nations have faults riddling them.

However, this thread is specifically about US justice etc., and a good point is made about the mandatory sentences. They just don't allow for any sensible judgements. If you are honest with yourself, would you consider a 17 year old guy getting a BJ from a 15 year old girl a criminal act requiring minimum 20 years? Would you even consider it a criminal act?
If he knew she was 15, he deserves a slap, though I agree that 20 years is a tad harsh.

It's possible he did'nt know she was not of legal age - is it 16 or 18 in the US? But at the end of the day, if you don't know for sure - keep it in your pants.

I think the reasons the Yanks have mandatory sentances is that they don't trust their judges to make the right decisions.

If their judges are anything like ours, I can't say I blame them.
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#14
Werewolf said:
I think the reasons the Yanks have mandatory sentances is that they don't trust their judges to make the right decisions.

If their judges are anything like ours, I can't say I blame them.
Don't you get it! Thats the bloody point. The Sun newspaper screams "3 months for murder - Justice gone mad" and some bloke in the street is convinced he can't be protected by the law.. In reality the murder was 2nd degree manslaughter and the victim jumped out in front of a drunk driver who was 1.1 times over the limit and couldn't avoid hitting him...

The press get the public het up - the politicians go on telly and say how terrible it is and all of a sudden you have sentincing powers removed from the judges (those old blokes with 50 years of experience) and put into the hands of a politician that wants a few more votes from Sun readers...

Its nuts, and it's happening now. The only saving grace is that we don't have local laws like the yanks...
 
#15
Mr Happy said:
Werewolf said:
Mr Happy said:
American justice is not blind, it knows who the old ladies are, and who the chief's of staff for the vice president are.

What scares me most about the US, is its mandatory sentences for crimes. There's a poor 21 year old boy in jail over there getting a BJ from a 15 year old whilst he was 17. Just another 17 years to do on his mandatory minimum 20 year sentence...
As opposed to peadophiles being let out early after raping children? And then doing it again?

I'm not blind to the faults of our Septic cousins. But we are really not in any position to take the p1ss.

Glass houses, old boy.
WW, firstly both us and our less educated cousings let folks out of prison early. Sometimes in error, sometimes by mistake.

20 year minimum sentences or mandatory charges of rape if the age difference takes the girl under a certain age if you are in (name your southern state of choice here) are madness.

I love americans, I think they're great but their politicians (and i say this having gone on a stag/bachelor party with a senator) are after nothing more than votes, money and power.

Reference glass houses... you make the mistake of assuming that I can't criticise the UK - I can most certainly and often do. But not on this issue.
So, American politicians are nothing like ours, then! :D

Sorry mate, but I could'nt let that one slip. :twisted:

I agree that, in the case you quoted, 20 years is a rediculous sentance. For "real" rape, 20 years is not long enough.

Perhaps I over-reacted to the original Post; Septic-bashing p1sses me off when I think of all the things wrong with THIS country. And I still believe we could learn a thing or two from the Yanks when it comes to Law Enforcement.
 
#16
Mr Happy said:
Werewolf said:
I think the reasons the Yanks have mandatory sentances is that they don't trust their judges to make the right decisions.

If their judges are anything like ours, I can't say I blame them.
Don't you get it! Thats the bloody point. The Sun newspaper screams "3 months for murder - Justice gone mad" and some bloke in the street is convinced he can't be protected by the law.. In reality the murder was 2nd degree manslaughter and the victim jumped out in front of a drunk driver who was 1.1 times over the limit and couldn't avoid hitting him...

The press get the public het up - the politicians go on telly and say how terrible it is and all of a sudden you have sentincing powers removed from the judges (those old blokes with 50 years of experience) and put into the hands of a politician that wants a few more votes from Sun readers...

Its nuts, and it's happening now. The only saving grace is that we don't have local laws like the yanks...
I hope the weather nice on the planet where you live, pal. :roll:

The only time I'd buy the Sun is I ran out of bog-roll. With the possible exception of the Guardian, almost every paper has had a go at judges for weak sentancing. And rightly so; I could fill a whole Thread with examples of UK judges who are so far out of touch with reality they could'nt make contact even by shouting loudly and hitting it with a ten foot pole.

50 years of experiance? Sometimes all that means is: half a century of being a cnut.

I've worked in a High Court. I've seen judges in "action" and trust me, they are far from impressive. I've heard veteran CID officers say they believe many judges have peadophile tendancies; it's the only explanation for some sentances.

One thing the Septics have got right: if you don't like a judge's performance, don't vote for him next time around. Over here, it's jobs for the boys, and for life. We're stuck with what we get.
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#17
then we are in agreement.

my top three things we could learn from are:

investment in kit and training
speed of reaction to change (how long did it take civpol to get tasers and mace?)
number of cops on the street
PR - The Till might be realistic but CSI Miami or Miami Vice are better... the only time a cop gets good publicity is when he's been shot and someone says "Hero Bobby shot by XXX"

and things the US cops can learn from us

ROE - black people are not targets
judgement not procedures - how many cops does it take to arrest a jay walking professor
paying cops properly - so they don't double as security guards when they should be sleeping
corruption - losing those DWI's for the sherrifs niece
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#18
ooops, appears our threads have crossed and there I was thinking that you agreed with me...

Looks instead like you have an axe to grind and a failed career or two to blame it on. OK.

I've never worked in high-court but I have seen Judge John Deed... I thought this was a thread on law enforcement and not judges and their sentencing?
 
#19
Mr Happy said:
then we are in agreement.

my top three things we could learn from are:

investment in kit and training
speed of reaction to change (how long did it take civpol to get tasers and mace?)
number of cops on the street
PR - The Till might be realistic but CSI Miami or Miami Vice are better... the only time a cop gets good publicity is when he's been shot and someone says "Hero Bobby shot by XXX"

and things the US cops can learn from us

ROE - black people are not targets
judgement not procedures - how many cops does it take to arrest a jay walking professor
paying cops properly - so they don't double as security guards when they should be sleeping
corruption - losing those DWI's for the sherrifs niece
My Top Three:

Zero Tolerance - get enough coppers on the street, force the judiciary to support them, build enough prisons to hold all the chavs etc that are going to be lifted.

Tear up the EHRA. Wipe arse on the pieces. Pour petrol on top of what's left and set fire to it(who said I was bitter?).

More Armed Police, even if that means offering direct entry to recruits who only wish to carry out Armed Response. Obviously an intensive selection and training process should be put in place to weed out those unsuitable.

Contraversial I know, but we definately need more armed coppers; Glasgow Airport had no armed police on duty at the time of the attacks, and there have been other situations where a lack of armed coppers have been a factor in the death of civilians.
 
#20
No body move I have a gun. Now take this thread to Cuba. Bugger somebody has already hijacked it.

I say the old bird got what was coming to her. That will happen here soon, about 6 weeks after hose pipe ban you get fined for having an unwatered lawn. Think of income for local councils.
 

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