American Army, structure question.

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by Mr Happy, May 7, 2008.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. Mr Happy

    Mr Happy LE Moderator

    OK, so joking and banter aside I received an email from a civi mucker a while back who asked "if the US has deployed the 101st airborne to XYZ, does this mean there are another 100 units elsewhere and if so, how come I've only ever heard of the 101st and 82nd?).

    Which I was able to answer, e.g., they've two, one airmobile and one with parachutes but of course the main thrust of the question, was there ever 100 other units, or did they start counting at 101 as part of opsec? or whats the story?

    Is 10th Mountain division the remains of 1st, 2nd, 3rd mountain etc...

    Where do they get their numbering from? And why?

    Actually, I'm bored so banter is welcome..
     
  2. check XVIII Airborne Corps on the US Army site for breakdown of the units. CLICKY
    Re numberering of units - probably like 21 Them Regt.

    list includes full breakdown of active units

    edited to add link :oops:
     
  3. Heh... good luck trying to unravel the parentage of current formations... to give you an idea how convoluted it is, here's a slice of recent history... 3rd ID was deactivated in Germany circa 1992, 24th ID was merged with the 197th Inf brigade and reflagged as 3rd ID around 1994 or so. 2nd ACR was deactivated in Germany and what had been the 3rd brigade of the recently deactivated 9th ID at Fort Lewis was moved to Fort Polk and redesignated 2nd ACR. 7th ID out of Fort Ord was deactivated but one of their brigades moved up to Fort Lewis and redesiganted the 9th regimental combat team, then reflagged again as part of 25th ID with Strykers. 7th ID was then reactivated as a National Gaurd unit with active duty command staff... Ugh... you get the picture... the US Army shuffles everything around every few years for unfathomable purposes. Suffice to say that at some point in my Army's history there were divisions carrying all the assorted numeral designations (101st actually started life as the 89th during the Civil War for example...) but they all didn't exist at the same time.
     
  4. Plagiarising from an intelligent lad on TankNet.

    NTM
    _______________
    The Divisional numbers were allocated as follows:

    1-25: Regular Army
    26-75: National Guard (enough for each state to have a division)
    76+: National Army/Army of the United States

    The 82nd and 101st were old national army units converted to Airborne in WW2 and they retained their numbers (despite pressure to reflag in the 1-25 sequence?)

    Similarly, regimental numbers were allocated based on division numbers, 1-4 Inf were supposed to be 1 ID, 5-8 2 ID etc. The numbers 1-100 are reserved for regulars, 101-300 for ARNG, 301-500 for National Army (501-600 ended up as newly raised PIR and ISTR 600+ is reserved for SF, raiders etc.)
     
  5. Plagiarising from an intelligent lad on TankNet.

    NTM
    _______________
    The Divisional numbers were allocated as follows:

    1-25: Regular Army
    26-75: National Guard (enough for each state to have a division)
    76+: National Army/Army of the United States

    The 82nd and 101st were old national army units converted to Airborne in WW2 and they retained their numbers (despite pressure to reflag in the 1-25 sequence?)

    Similarly, regimental numbers were allocated based on division numbers, 1-4 Inf were supposed to be 1 ID, 5-8 2 ID etc. The numbers 1-100 are reserved for regulars, 101-300 for ARNG, 301-500 for National Army (501-600 ended up as newly raised PIR and ISTR 600+ is reserved for SF, raiders etc.)
     
  6. Plagiarising from an intelligent lad on TankNet.

    NTM
    _______________
    The Divisional numbers were allocated as follows:

    1-25: Regular Army
    26-75: National Guard (enough for each state to have a division)
    76+: National Army/Army of the United States

    The 82nd and 101st were old national army units converted to Airborne in WW2 and they retained their numbers (despite pressure to reflag in the 1-25 sequence?)

    Similarly, regimental numbers were allocated based on division numbers, 1-4 Inf were supposed to be 1 ID, 5-8 2 ID etc. The numbers 1-100 are reserved for regulars, 101-300 for ARNG, 301-500 for National Army (501-600 ended up as newly raised PIR and ISTR 600+ is reserved for SF, raiders etc.)
     
  7. Plagiarising from an intelligent lad on TankNet.

    NTM
    _______________
    The Divisional numbers were allocated as follows:

    1-25: Regular Army
    26-75: National Guard (enough for each state to have a division)
    76+: National Army/Army of the United States

    The 82nd and 101st were old national army units converted to Airborne in WW2 and they retained their numbers (despite pressure to reflag in the 1-25 sequence?)

    Similarly, regimental numbers were allocated based on division numbers, 1-4 Inf were supposed to be 1 ID, 5-8 2 ID etc. The numbers 1-100 are reserved for regulars, 101-300 for ARNG, 301-500 for National Army (501-600 ended up as newly raised PIR and ISTR 600+ is reserved for SF, raiders etc.)
     
  8. Say again CT
     
  9. In short, there is no logic behind the numbering system. If one looks at the ORBAT through history, one can see that it was numbered by capability. Hence they currently have (from memory) the 1st Cav, 1st Inf and 1st Armo(u)red.

    I look forward to the inevitable crap from better informed google warriors - bring it on. I will raise your posts at the next Joint Warrior symposium.
     
  10. Well said PassingBells. :D

    Though the info from CT has helped clarify a thing or two...or three. :p

    Peter
     
  11. Bloody hell, that's a hell of a stutter I picked up. Can't seem to delete the excess.

    NTM
     
  12. They are numbered in the order they were created. The first armoured division to be created was called... "First Armored Division". The third infantry division to be created was called "Third Infantry Division"

    Capability has nothing to do with it. 1st ID is arguably less capable than 4th ID, given their respective equipment.

    Plagiarising a different intelligent lad on TankNet, this is the method used to sequence the divisions in the US Army. When trying to figure out which one to disband if there are several of one type, the one lower down the list goes. About the only exception I can catch off the top of my head is 25th ID. Not having the Tropic Lightning in Hawaii would be just.. odd.
    ____________________
    As of OCT 2004.

    The Order of Merit List is AC/AR divisions only. ARNG divisions are primarily retained on reasons of geography, rather than merit, so they are not included. AC and AR division identities can be transferred between the components, as they are both Federal. ARNG divisions cannot do that.

    The Army currently uses the following factors to determine the historical priority of divisions and brigades and the point value assigned to each:
    a. Age--one point for each year since initial organization. (No points are subtracted for periods of inactive status.)
    b. Campaign participation credit--two points for each campaign.
    c. US unit decorations--two points for each award.

    Rank Division Type Points
    1 1st Inf. Div. Infantry 152
    2 1st Cav. Div. Cavalry 142
    3 3d Inf. Div. Infantry 140
    4 2d Inf. Div. Infantry 132
    5 4th Inf. Div. Infantry 130
    6 101st Abn. Div. Airborne 129
    7 82nd Abn. Div. Airborne 120
    8 7th Inf. Div. Infantry 119
    8 9th Inf. Div. Infantry 119
    10 24th Inf. Div. Infantry 118
    10 25th Inf. Div. Infantry 118
    12 5th Inf. Div. Infantry 106
    13 90th Inf. Div. Infantry 104
    14 77th Inf. Div. Infantry 102
    14 79th Inf. Div. Infantry 102
    16 83rd Inf. Div Infantry 100
    17 89th Inf. Div. Infantry 98
    18 8th Inf. Div. Infantry 97
    20 6th Inf. Div. Infantry 96
    20 76th Inf. Div. Infantry 96
    20 81st Inf. Div. Infantry 96
    20 84th Inf. Div. Infantry 96
    20 88th Inf. Div. Infantry 96
    20 92nd Inf. Div. Infantry 96
    27 1st Armd. Div. Armored 95
    27 23rd Inf. Div. Infantry 95
    29 96th Inf. Div. Infantry 93
    29 99th Inf Div. Infantry 93
    31 86th Inf. Div. Infantry 92
    31 94th Inf. Div. Infantry 92
    33 103rd Inf. Div. Infantry 90
    34 97th Inf. Div. Infantry 89
    35 102nd Inf. Div. Infantry 88
    36 3d Armd. Div. Armored 84
    37 2d Armd. Div. Armored 79
    38 4th Armd. Div. Armored 76
    39 5th Armd. Div. Armored 74
    40 6th Armd. Div. Armored 73
    41 7th Armd. Div. Armored 71
    42 11th Abn. Div. Infantry 70
    43 8th Armd. Div. Armored 69
    43 9th Armd. Div. Armored 69
    43 10th Armd. Div. Armored 69
    43 11th Armd. Div. Armored 69
    43 12th Armd. Div. Armored 69
    43 14th Armd. Div. Armored 69
    49 10th Mtn. Div. Infantry 68
    49 17th Abn. Div. Airborne 68
    49 70th Inf. Div. Infantry 68
    49 106th Inf. Div. Infantry 68
    53 13th Armd. Div. Armored 67
    53 93rd Inf. Div. Infantry 67
    55 2nd Cav. Div. Cavalry 66
    55 63rd Inf. Div. Infantry 66
    55 69th Inf. Div Infantry 66
    55 71st Inf. Div. Infantry 66
    59 13th Abn. Div. Airborne 64
    59 66th Inf Div. Infantry 64

    Rank Brigade Type Points
    1 173rd Abn. Bde. Airborne 128
    2 196th Inf. Bde. Infantry 116
    2 199th Inf. Bde. Infantry 116
    4 198th Inf. Bde Infantry 114
    5 157th Inf. Bde. Infantry 102
    6 177th Arm. Bde. Airborne 94
    6 197th Inf. Bde. Infantry 94
    8 171st Inf. Bde. Infantry 92
    8 172nd Inf. Bde. Infantry 92
    8 187th Inf. Bde Infantry 92
    11 205th Inf. Bde. Infantry 90
    12 191st Inf. Bde. Infantry 88
    13 193rd Inf. Bde. Infantry 87
    14 194th Armd. Bde. Infantry 85
     
  13. Don't listen to the others, they will lead you astray. There are 100 other airborne divisions in the US Army.
     
  14. What is the 'National Army'? Is that the units of the 'U.S. Volunteers' (non-Regular Army) of the Civil War era?

    EDIT: Got the wikipedia lowdown LINK