America - its all a bit odd...

As I recall, USS Constitution had 30 guns on the gun deck and ~20 on the spar deck. In addition there were two small bow chasers and two small stern chasers.
Not sure if they all are still there as in the mid 1990's, when she only had standing rigging, work was done to replace all running rigging and get sails and now Constitution can sail again.

A few years ago Constitution was again in Graving Dock 1, adjacent to her berth, for reduction of hogging and to replace some of the copper sheets protecting the hull. Some of the copper removed had been made by silversmith Paul Revere, American patriot (and British traitor. :-D) I have been told that Graving Dock 1 was built in the late 1820's.
As much as I enjoy living in the US, good and bad, and have pride in my English upbringing, there is one thing in the US that irritates the living shit out of me, which is the appropriation of the term "patriot".

You correctly identified that Paul Revere was a patriot to one side and a traitor to the other. Many, many Americans associate "patriot" with "American", rather than its true meaning of fidelity to one's country.

Judging by this thread, even the Snow Mexicans are apparently patriots to their country.

But I think all in North America (except those in your neck of the woods) hate Tom Brady and his band/brand :)
 
As much as I enjoy living in the US, good and bad, and have pride in my English upbringing, there is one thing in the US that irritates the living shit out of me, which is the appropriation of the term "patriot".

You correctly identified that Paul Revere was a patriot to one side and a traitor to the other. Many, many Americans associate "patriot" with "American", rather than its true meaning of fidelity to one's country.

Judging by this thread, even the Snow Mexicans are apparently patriots to their country.

But I think all in North America (except those in your neck of the woods) hate Tom Brady and his band/brand :)
So very sad that some people are so deluded that they cannot realize that he is the greatest of all time
 
So very sad that some people are so deluded that they cannot realize that he is the greatest of all time
I'd never heard of the guy until Roadster mentioned him and I googled to find out who was.
 
Tom Brady is a very strong, independent woman, a role model for all females.
She's getting a little long in the tooth too at age 41. Was the money paid out for the contract extension well spent? We don't know, but the day of reckoning coming. Will Bill Belicheck be the hero or the goat?

Go for the young talent, I always say, even if it comes from California.

Aaron Rogers.PNG
 
She's getting a little long in the tooth too at age 41. Was the money paid out for the contract extension well spent? We don't know, but the day of reckoning coming. Will Bill Belicheck be the hero or the goat?

Go for the young talent, I always say, even if it comes from California.

View attachment 410597
I say, that’s some interesting looking rugger gear. Does he have some kind of disability or injury? Is that why he needs that helmet and padding? Don’t the other chaps mind in the scrum?

Or is it so girls can play in mixed teams and not get hurt?

Looks jolly spiffing, what?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
But I think all in North America (except those in your neck of the woods) hate Tom Brady and his band/brand :)
Which is an interesting reversion from the American, 'love the winner' attitude to the British 'drag him down to our level'. Maybe you Yanks aren't so different after all :rofl:.
 
The US Navy frigates like Constitution were faster and outgunned our frigates....no Yankee captain would have put his vessel willingly in the way of a 74 gun ship of the line such as Victory or the Hibernia or Revenge - that wasn't what they were designed to do.

Mostly mounting 32 guns, RN Frigates were commerce raiders and 'the eyes' of a battle fleet. Bit like armoured recce for cav types.

The Constitution mounted 40 guns, as did the other large USN frigates.

Most of them were blockaded in port by several RN ships and/or sunk in single ship actions.

This list shows what the RN strength at sea was at the time of Mr Madison's Wah

List of ships of the line of the Royal Navy - Wikipedia


this list details British ships which were engaged at one time or another during the War of 1812.


Good reference work:

CS Forester : The Naval War of 1812.( non-Fiction)

( re-titled in USA 'The Age of Fighting Sail' because Teddy Roosevelt had written an earlier book of the same title.)

Forester also wrote a novel called 'The Captain from Connecticut' which covers the same period.


A member of the US branch of my family was captured by a British brig off the East coast (HMS Colibri). Bosun's mate on the privateer Catherine .

After capture, he was shipped back to HMP Dartmoor, which had been specifically purpose-built to hold POWs, mostly French.

SOURCE

On 24 July 1812, Colibri sighted three vessels off Cape Sable and gave chase to one, a schooner. When Colibri got close she exchanged signals with the schooner, which turned to be Bream. Colibri then chased and took two other vessels, which turned out to be an American privateer and a bark, her prize. The privateer was the Catherine; eight days out of Boston; she had taken only the bark. Catherine, under the command of Francis A. Burnham, was pierced for 16 guns but mounted fourteen 6-pounder guns and had a crew of 88 men. She had suffered one man killed and one wounded before she surrendered after a 15-minute action. Her casualties were low as the crew had taken refuge below decks.[14] In contrast to Thomson’s official report, one American newspaper reported that the action had lasted one and a half hours and that Colibri had six men killed and several wounded.[15]
Sorry GM, but your information is a little 'adrift'.

'... in the way of a 74 gun ship of the line such as Victory (104 guns) or the Hibernia (110 guns) ...'

'Mostly mounting 32 guns, RN Frigates...' - by 1812 the standard frigate class being built by the RN was the Leda, mounting 38 guns, although there were still a lot of smaller (36, 32, 28 gun) frigates still in service.

'The Constitution mounted 40 guns...' - USS Constitution was often referred to as a 'heavy frigate', which in European navies of the time generally meant 44 gun (normally no heavier than 18 pdr), often razee'd from a two-decker. From wiki: 'During the War of 1812, Constitution's battery of guns typically consisted of 30 long 24-pounder (11 kg) cannons, with 15 on each side of the gun deck. Another 22 guns were deployed on the spar deck, 11 per side, each a short 32-pounder (15 kg) carronade. Four chase guns were also positioned, two each at the stern and bow.' So Constitution was carrying 56 guns, as mentioned by others upthread.
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
Thanks for the clarity S-O...working from memory is never a good thing.

The key point being that Constitution survived to grace the water today because she was never fool enough to go one on one with with a 74.

Have you followed the fate of the USS Wasp at all ?
 
Thanks for the clarity S-O...working from memory is never a good thing.

The key point being that Constitution survived to grace the water today because she was never fool enough to go one on one with with a 74.

Have you followed the fate of the USS Wasp at all ?
Yes indeed, and then you have quirks like the all carronade armed USS Essex. The USN of the time was, either through innovation or necessity, certainly willing to try unconventional solutions.
 

Helm

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
She's getting a little long in the tooth too at age 41. Was the money paid out for the contract extension well spent? We don't know, but the day of reckoning coming. Will Bill Belicheck be the hero or the goat?

Go for the young talent, I always say, even if it comes from California.

View attachment 410597
Does he have a sippy cup that matches his helmet?
 
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