America - its all a bit odd...

Think about it from @LJONESY view point, he is a civil servant so his pay and medical insurance is already funded by the taxes etc that everyone pays. Why would he want to move to a system where he pays a bit more tax to cover those who have no medical cover. No improvement for him.
I would pay out more money for crap insurance. It would be a lose, lose situation.
 
All BS and ARRSE posturing aside.

I find it beyond outrageous it is disgusting. The democrats have been trying to bring in some form of european style healthcare for years - that is what Obama care was all about. You may hear all sorts said by the Republicans against the Democrat vision of healthcare but, it is nothing but scare mongering, lies and BS.

It is an often bandied around factoid that there are twice as many healthcare lobbyists in Washington than there are members of the house. The healthcare industry spends a fortune [in backhanders] to ensure that it is not overly controlled and regulated to rein in its huge profits.

I had some medical training years ago and know how to stick a needle in and sew up a hole, try and keep up to date with my emergency medical skills and limited diagnostic ability. There are illnesses and afflictions you can spot with a little training and I see many wandering around that would benefit from a simple procedure or course of pills. I can only assume they have no insurance and cannot afford the treatment. Two thing I have noticed much more in the US are rickets and diabetes - both IMHO a product of diet, but preventable/treatable with better information and education.

For us it depends on how much we have in the piggybank as to whether we come back to europe, or stay here. I have a couple of mates here who have bought a rental property so that the income from that pays for medical insurance. There is still the danger though that the insurance provider will decline payment and the bill comes at you, yes, they can decline payment - we used to have a forum member who had payment declined so he returned to the UK. Like I said, disgusting.
My elder sister married a US citizen and had a child* who unfortunately was born with no thyroid gland, i.e. will need life-long medication and monthly check-ups. Things went sour pretty quickly in the marriage and my sister struggled to find work, so my parents effectively fostered her daughter and she came to live with us as there was no way my sister could afford the medical costs on top of everything else. That was back in the late 70s/early 80s. If my parents hadn't been able to help, would my sister, at that time on a green card, have been able to get any help with her daughter's medical needs? Does the US government really think it's acceptable that people go without necessary treatment because they can't afford it? Why do so many of their citizens think that's ok?

I hear so many say things like "I'm not paying so some lazy ass can benefit", but it's a shared benefit. That "lazy ass" might then get medical treatment they need to be able to get a job and start paying into the system so when you lose your job and then get sick, you can get treatment too.

The NHS is far from perfect, but I thank god for it every day (and not just because I work for the organisation!).

*I am wondering how my neice will fare under Trump's children of immigrants proposal, although she is 42 now. I can't stand her and certainly don't want her coming to my side of the pond!
 
My experience is slightly aligned with yours, but goes a little further. I find that US personnel, whether mil, federal employees, mil contractors or just civvies, operate as gangs. They have all the angles covered and everybody knows where they fit into the plan. The only drawback is that quite often they don't have overlapping 'arcs of fire'. If someone is not available the rest of the gang can't cover the gap and end up waiting for the SME or their replacement to pitch up. I have had direct experience of this many times and I can assure you that it is extremely frustrating.
That appears to explain "American Football" very well!
 
so when you lose your job and then get sick, you can get treatment too.
A LOT of people don't get this part/ understand this. Till, they are out on the road and then start a GoFundMe campaign with their sob stories.

That said, the gov't REALLY needs to step up the efficiency game, if they have a hope in hell of convincing the general public that their tax dollars won't go down the drain, just like most other gov't programs and will actually be useful. Maybe one way to show this is by saying we will be able to cut down federal healthcare budget by X% if we move to a more universal healthcare type of system. The current per capita costs even with the current woeful system are just ridiculous.
 
My elder sister married a US citizen and had a child* who unfortunately was born with no thyroid gland, i.e. will need life-long medication and monthly check-ups. Things went sour pretty quickly in the marriage and my sister struggled to find work, so my parents effectively fostered her daughter and she came to live with us as there was no way my sister could afford the medical costs on top of everything else. That was back in the late 70s/early 80s. If my parents hadn't been able to help, would my sister, at that time on a green card, have been able to get any help with her daughter's medical needs? Does the US government really think it's acceptable that people go without necessary treatment because they can't afford it?
Umm, to be blunt, about them, not you, I don't honestly think most of them give a shit.

Just like being a British MP row's up a whole raft of ongoing benefits even if you only serve one term it is the same in the US.

Members of the House get to use the facilities at Walter Reed Army Medical Center (hospital). The top floors are effectively private VIP suites with antique furniture, private dining rooms, etc, etc. There are dedicated facilites for use of the President, cabinet, speaker of the house and top military officers only that sit empty whe not being used by those individuals. Then you step down a tier for members of the house/senate (and retired members) and also less senior generals. Then the general hospital offers treatment to the hoi polloi of the military in the DC area.

Why do so many of their citizens think that's ok?
The one's with no insurance do not think it is ok. However, the general population don't give a sh1t about their fellow man as long as they are alright jack!

Not being proper Americans, per say, we carry european values around with us and this affects the decisioning and actions that the Mrs takes at work when considering corporate benefits and social assistance at work. She has managed to bring in maternity leave at a major bank in the US, up from 2 weeks to around 3 months. When her office was in Florida inside the creditcard call centre (the call centre was not her job she had a regional job) she used to end up dealing with inhouse issues and found out that the staff there were on $11 an hour - the local supermarket was paying $12 an hour - she presented this to the board in New York and under the guise of reducing staff turnover managed to get it up to $14 an hour. The staff loved her. Florida was an eye opener about the US for us - you hear all the fluffy stuff, visit the Disney bubble, see the big houses and shiny supermarkets - go off the beaten track and see how many people are living in mobile homes, and have no medical insurance.

The wife has come home despairing sometimes: She has had single mum's in her office, in tears, trying to explain that that week they can either pay the rent, medical insurance, or buy food, but not all three. She started a pantry at work that people could donate to and diverted a sizeable portion of er petty cash into stocking the pantry. She knew that there were single seperated mums with kids whose last full meal of the week would be friday lunchtime at school before getting a breakfast at school on monday morning.

I hear so many say things like "I'm not paying so some lazy ass can benefit", but it's a shared benefit. That "lazy ass" might then get medical treatment they need to be able to get a job and start paying into the system so when you lose your job and then get sick, you can get treatment too.
We came over in the middle of the last crash and started to learn about life in the US. It used to amaze me that people couldn't give a sh1t about their fellow man. I had one lawyer who kept big timing it and snotting on those who were not paying for insurance and getting free treatment. He actually snotted on the UK NHS saying it was social and therefore communist - I tried to explain but, they hear what they want. THEN due to the economic downturn his law company laid him off...............no more insurance. I inwardly laughed because it was teaching the git a valuable lesson in life.

Don't call it a system though! It most definitely is not a system system implies cohesiveness and a working in harmony of many components. American healthcare is a collection of thousands, and thousands, of separate privately owned companies who all want to make a profit - a large profit.

For example: Look at the disc operation I had recently. In the US the local juju man who is considered one of the top two or three in the US wanted around $150,000 to do the op using a gen 1 disc with me spending possibly a night in hospital, thats possibly. My insurance requires a 20% excess, therefore I would have had to pay $30,000 towards the op. The US expert went to Germany to learn how to do the op, they have been doing the op in Germany since the 80's and the Doc I went to see in Germany has done the op well over a couple of thousand times. Also the entire experience of going to Germany, having the op, etc, etc, with all costs totted up cost me well short of $25,000 - and they put me in the ICU overnight and kept me in hospital for 7 days not kicking me out the day after because the insurer whinges about insuree's taking up a $1200 a night bed. Big difference in care and a big difference between $150,000 and $25,000.

The NHS is far from perfect, but I thank god for it every day (and not just because I work for the organisation!).
Love it while you've got it. Word is they are looking to change to a more American model because UK plc. needs the income. Word is that Kaiser Permanente is already sniffing around the NHS, by invitation.

*I am wondering how my neice will fare under Trump's children of immigrants proposal, although she is 42 now. I can't stand her and certainly don't want her coming to my side of the pond!
Move house;).
 
When my marriage first went tits up, my sister (by then a naturalized citizen and in vastly improved economic circumstances) volunteered to sponsor my emigration to the US. I did seriously consider it but with two young children and the spectre of childhood illnesses and accidents in my mind, it was healthcare that made up my mind to stay in the UK.

I made the correct choice as my youngest has needed neurological, orthodontic and maxillo-facial treatments that no doubt would have quite quickly put me on my arse financially.
 
Umm, to be blunt, about them, not you, I don't honestly think most of them give a shit.

Just like being a British MP row's up a whole raft of ongoing benefits even if you only serve one term it is the same in the US.

Members of the House get to use the facilities at Walter Reed Army Medical Center (hospital). The top floors are effectively private VIP suites with antique furniture, private dining rooms, etc, etc. There are dedicated facilites for use of the President, cabinet, speaker of the house and top military officers only that sit empty whe not being used by those individuals. Then you step down a tier for members of the house/senate (and retired members) and also less senior generals. Then the general hospital offers treatment to the hoi polloi of the military in the DC area.



The one's with no insurance do not think it is ok. However, the general population don't give a sh1t about their fellow man as long as they are alright jack!

Not being proper Americans, per say, we carry european values around with us and this affects the decisioning and actions that the Mrs takes at work when considering corporate benefits and social assistance at work. She has managed to bring in maternity leave at a major bank in the US, up from 2 weeks to around 3 months. When her office was in Florida inside the creditcard call centre (the call centre was not her job she had a regional job) she used to end up dealing with inhouse issues and found out that the staff there were on $11 an hour - the local supermarket was paying $12 an hour - she presented this to the board in New York and under the guise of reducing staff turnover managed to get it up to $14 an hour. The staff loved her. Florida was an eye opener about the US for us - you hear all the fluffy stuff, visit the Disney bubble, see the big houses and shiny supermarkets - go off the beaten track and see how many people are living in mobile homes, and have no medical insurance.

The wife has come home despairing sometimes: She has had single mum's in her office, in tears, trying to explain that that week they can either pay the rent, medical insurance, or buy food, but not all three. She started a pantry at work that people could donate to and diverted a sizeable portion of er petty cash into stocking the pantry. She knew that there were single seperated mums with kids whose last full meal of the week would be friday lunchtime at school before getting a breakfast at school on monday morning.



We came over in the middle of the last crash and started to learn about life in the US. It used to amaze me that people couldn't give a sh1t about their fellow man. I had one lawyer who kept big timing it and snotting on those who were not paying for insurance and getting free treatment. He actually snotted on the UK NHS saying it was social and therefore communist - I tried to explain but, they hear what they want. THEN due to the economic downturn his law company laid him off...............no more insurance. I inwardly laughed because it was teaching the git a valuable lesson in life.

Don't call it a system though! It most definitely is not a system system implies cohesiveness and a working in harmony of many components. American healthcare is a collection of thousands, and thousands, of separate privately owned companies who all want to make a profit - a large profit.

For example: Look at the disc operation I had recently. In the US the local juju man who is considered one of the top two or three in the US wanted around $150,000 to do the op using a gen 1 disc with me spending possibly a night in hospital, thats possibly. My insurance requires a 20% excess, therefore I would have had to pay $30,000 towards the op. The US expert went to Germany to learn how to do the op, they have been doing the op in Germany since the 80's and the Doc I went to see in Germany has done the op well over a couple of thousand times. Also the entire experience of going to Germany, having the op, etc, etc, with all costs totted up cost me well short of $25,000 - and they put me in the ICU overnight and kept me in hospital for 7 days not kicking me out the day after because the insurer whinges about insuree's taking up a $1200 a night bed. Big difference in care and a big difference between $150,000 and $25,000.



Love it while you've got it. Word is they are looking to change to a more American model because UK plc. needs the income. Word is that Kaiser Permanente is already sniffing around the NHS, by invitation.



Move house;).
Have an informative, like and funny - and give your wife a hug.
 
When my marriage first went tits up, my sister (by then a naturalized citizen and in vastly improved economic circumstances) volunteered to sponsor my emigration to the US. I did seriously consider it but with two young children and the spectre of childhood illnesses and accidents in my mind, it was healthcare that made up my mind to stay in the UK.

I made the correct choice as my youngest has needed neurological, orthodontic and maxillo-facial treatments that no doubt would have quite quickly put me on my arse financially.
Medical costs are the number one reason for personal bankruptcy in the US.

When I was looking at houses to fix up in Florida I did not understand why so many were owned by Trust's and LLC's. Then I found out: If they are in Trust or owned by an LLC they cannot be taken for medical bills, so the medical billing company is less likely to start bankruptcy proceedings.

You need to be able to buy the house outright to put it into a trust or LLC, so it is normally the retirees who have sold their house up north who moved down and paid cash for their retirement house.
 
My experience is slightly aligned with yours, but goes a little further. I find that US personnel, whether mil, federal employees, mil contractors or just civvies, operate as gangs. They have all the angles covered and everybody knows where they fit into the plan. The only drawback is that quite often they don't have overlapping 'arcs of fire'. If someone is not available the rest of the gang can't cover the gap and end up waiting for the SME or their replacement to pitch up. I have had direct experience of this many times and I can assure you that it is extremely frustrating.
Yup I know this. When I am gone none of my work gets done. Being the SME has it's drawbacks.
 
All BS and ARRSE posturing aside.

I find it beyond outrageous it is disgusting. The democrats have been trying to bring in some form of european style healthcare for years - that is what Obama care was all about. You may hear all sorts said by the Republicans against the Democrat vision of healthcare but, it is nothing but scare mongering, lies and BS.

It is an often bandied around factoid that there are twice as many healthcare lobbyists in Washington than there are members of the house. The healthcare industry spends a fortune [in backhanders] to ensure that it is not overly controlled and regulated to rein in its huge profits.

I had some medical training years ago and know how to stick a needle in and sew up a hole, try and keep up to date with my emergency medical skills and limited diagnostic ability. There are illnesses and afflictions you can spot with a little training and I see many wandering around that would benefit from a simple procedure or course of pills. I can only assume they have no insurance and cannot afford the treatment. Two thing I have noticed much more in the US are rickets and diabetes - both IMHO a product of diet, but preventable/treatable with better information and education.

For us it depends on how much we have in the piggybank as to whether we come back to europe, or stay here. I have a couple of mates here who have bought a rental property so that the income from that pays for medical insurance. There is still the danger though that the insurance provider will decline payment and the bill comes at you, yes, they can decline payment - we used to have a forum member who had payment declined so he returned to the UK. Like I said, disgusting.
This was shown on Sicko, the insurance companies have departments dedicated to going through your claim and your history in order to find a reason that will enable them to refuse payment. One girl interviewed told how her claim was refused as she hadn't disclosed she had a yeast infection when she was a teenager. I can't remember what her claim was for though.
 
This was shown on Sicko, the insurance companies have departments dedicated to going through your claim and your history in order to find a reason that will enable them to refuse payment. One girl interviewed told how her claim was refused as she hadn't disclosed she had a yeast infection when she was a teenager. I can't remember what her claim was for though.
@Bollox
I got your first paragraph as per the below in my heads up e-mail from ARRSE, but it was not in the above post - weird.

"A couple of years after Ozzy Osbourne broke his back arsing about on a quad bike he was undergoing tests in America. When the doctor checked his x-rays he nodded in approval and said that's dam good work they they have done that how much did it cost you, 250000 ?. Ozzy replied nothing it was all done on the NHS"
What was the reply/look of the US surgeon to Ozzy?
 
If you were a pensioner with no insurance or wealth of your own and you fall and break your hip what happens?, will you get free treatment of any kind ? or will you be obliged to suffer and heal yourself.
 
Medicare (United States) - Wikipedia

Let me introduce you to one of the layers of socialized health care we have in America.
And it is utter shite!

One of my Heating and Air Conditioning (HVAC) lecturers at college is effectively retired with a city pension as he ran part of the city maintenance department and he also has his social securty pension. However, he still feels the need to work part-time to earn enough to pay the $800 a month top up insurance so that his basic medicare is a bit more than tea and sympathy.

No disrespect @LJONESY as we write back and forth with PM's. The average American has never been exposed to any kind of healthcare outside the US and blindly accept the propaganda that it is the best in the world. If anyone cares to check the United Nations World Health Organisation ranking for medical care in the US they will see it sits at 37th place.

Medicare is just a nod at healthcare for retiree's so that the government does not have to hang its head in shame on the international stage.
 

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