Amended Backstop

Why? If the UK wishes it can allow goods in without checks. All the grief is coming from the EU. If the EU wants checks then the EU sets them up.
And the lack of appreciation of the U.K. of customs.


The EU will set up checks under no deal.

The U.K. has already said it is imposing tariffs, that means you have to have to a border to police what is coming into the and collect them.

The U.K. has notified the WTO of those proposed tarrifs and I think the WTO has already received objections.

If the U.K. doesn’t police a border then compliants will be lodged by others that the U.K. is freely allowing Irish and EU goods into the U.K. without controlling them (as we would have a competitive advantage over them) and there will be knock on effects.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
They should have been doing that for the last 15 months when the backstop was agreed when they realised it wasn’t popular in order to prevent it being required
Had PMTM allowed proper negotiation, Had the Eu actually negotiated, Had we sent a political negotiator that voted leave etc!
 
And the lack of appreciation of the U.K. of customs.


The EU will set up checks under no deal.

The U.K. has already said it is imposing tariffs, that means you have to have to a border to police what is coming into the and collect them.

The U.K. has notified the WTO of those proposed tarrifs and I think the WTO has already received objections.

If the U.K. doesn’t police a border then compliants will be lodged by others that the U.K. is freely allowing Irish and EU goods into the U.K. without controlling them (as we would have a competitive advantage over them) and there will be knock on effects.
Article 24.

Don’t worry though. Technical solutions are readily available.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
And the lack of appreciation of the U.K. of customs.


The EU will set up checks under no deal.

The U.K. has already said it is imposing tariffs, that means you have to have to a border to police what is coming into the and collect them.

The U.K. has notified the WTO of those proposed tarrifs and I think the WTO has already received objections.

If the U.K. doesn’t police a border then compliants will be lodged by others that the U.K. is freely allowing Irish and EU goods into the U.K. without controlling them (as we would have a competitive advantage over them) and there will be knock on effects.
We have computers too you know. I suspect that RoI will suffer more from the smuggling that will take place. Dont expect us to stop the smuggling southbound!
 
And the lack of appreciation of the U.K. of customs.


The EU will set up checks under no deal.

The U.K. has already said it is imposing tariffs, that means you have to have to a border to police what is coming into the and collect them.

The U.K. has notified the WTO of those proposed tarrifs and I think the WTO has already received objections.

If the U.K. doesn’t police a border then compliants will be lodged by others that th'e U.K. is freely allowing Irish and EU goods into the U.K. without controlling them (as we would have a competitive advantage over them) and there will be knock on effects.
I'm sorry but that is Irish. If you'd watched @ Auld Yin's DW interview with the MEP- the Eu are wriggling like hell to get out of the GFA and the implicit threat from the EU to Ireland is if THEY don't set up the border controls (that nobody wants), the EU will impose barriers on Irish trade. This is actually a coded way of saying they want nothing to do with Ireland.

Actually if Veradker used his brains, he could do very well, because the upcoming spat about Nondom and Tax issues is going to make him wish that he had thought twice. Outside the EU Ireland could make far more money than it's agribusiness as a Tax Haven as @ Banker has alluded.

As to your last point it's really rather moot. In order to comply both the EU and the UK must have viable customs presences/enforcement to comply with WTO rules. Irish Customs is ultra vires according to the Lisbon treaty, But Brussels has no alternative, it depends on MSs. We got rid of ours to comply-(tad ironic that). It has the means of collections but not the real means of enforcement, which is why both sides don't want to man it. To cap it all it has already been agreed that Britain will retain CT facilities, which rather undermines the whole argument because CT effectively remotely controls the movement of goods. Kafka couldn't make that up.
 
Utter pish and drivel, the only party in this being realistic is the UK govt, we know as do the Irish however we also acknowledge that ignoring the border will and has gone on since it was put in. We can manage goods entering GB through electronic customs management. Stuff entering NI legally the same. Illegal stuff will have to take its chances. Simply put every vehicle importing has an electronic manifest. Simply pull over wagons which havent submitted them somewhere before their final destination. NI, GB and RoI all understand this. It seems you dont understand how customs and excise work in the 21st Century.
Technically we have a hard border with France, the fact that I am rarely stopped is based upon C&E intelligence. I have been stopped a few times, they were profiling vehicle size and owners age for booze and fag smuggling
Does the U.K. do it all electronically for 3rd countries currently?

Allowing goods into circulation from the ports and airports without them clearing customs?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Usually (in my limited experience) I have collected stuff or had it delivered from independent private bonded warehouses. I get notified the goods are in and pay before collecting/having it delivered. C&E get paid. They have almost no involvement in handling, inspection (thats a laugh, not had a package from USA opened ever) and its all done electronically. I tend not to buy stuff shipped in Lorries from the continent so I wouldn't know how it works now but previously HMRC would have the docket/ladling bill on arrival and inspect if required. Nowadays I assume that is done electronically in advance and checks on lorries are for illegal immigrants/drugs/guns etc. Good duties to Eu collected at point of entry. No idea how they do that I assume a modern system like the airports. RoI will need to collect the duties, we can rely on billing before release from bonded or with regular traffic and perishables that can be retrospectively with an accepted level of Corruption which we know exists in Ireland the island.
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
And the lack of appreciation of the U.K. of customs.


The EU will set up checks under no deal.

The U.K. has already said it is imposing tariffs, that means you have to have to a border to police what is coming into the and collect them.

The U.K. has notified the WTO of those proposed tarrifs and I think the WTO has already received objections.

If the U.K. doesn’t police a border then compliants will be lodged by others that the U.K. is freely allowing Irish and EU goods into the U.K. without controlling them (as we would have a competitive advantage over them) and there will be knock on effects.
Sound pretty desperate there Sarge. Do you need some tissues for your eyes?
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
Play the ball not the man ? There are enough threads with personal insults exchanged it'd be good to see debate and nothing else.
While I would normally agree with you, if you read back this thread you will note that IS just reiterates his view that it is all for the UK to do, any border issues must be dealt with by the UK, nobody wants a border but if the UK don't do what the EU want then it is the UK's fault and they must take action to set up a border. i.e. Eire and the EU don't want any blame for their own intransigence and want the UK to take the blame and expense of border controls - the UK are saying Foxtrot Oscar.

If IS has no intention of listening to reasoned argument, and there is plenty on here, then maybe a bit of a jolt is needed.

Now pop off and hand in your application for Mod somewhere else!
 
Usually (in my limited experience) I have collected stuff or had it delivered from independent private bonded warehouses. I get notified the goods are in and pay before collecting/having it delivered. C&E get paid. They have almost no involvement in handling, inspection (thats a laugh, not had a package from USA opened ever) and its all done electronically. I tend not to buy stuff shipped in Lorries from the continent so I wouldn't know how it works now but previously HMRC would have the docket/ladling bill on arrival and inspect if required. Nowadays I assume that is done electronically in advance and checks on lorries are for illegal immigrants/drugs/guns etc. Good duties to Eu collected at point of entry. No idea how they do that I assume a modern system like the airports. RoI will need to collect the duties, we can rely on billing before release from bonded or with regular traffic and perishables that can be retrospectively with an accepted level of Corruption which we know exists in Ireland the island.

Anything that's bonded is tax free until released from the bonding system. Where UPS Fedex, TNT etc or Mail systems are concerned they have MOU's as part of their approvals to alert the authorities to illegal movements, but then those tend to be electronic or X Ray devices.

Candidly they do what they can, read into that what you will. Cand E/HMRC Staff working in the postal, freight hubs raise the charges and those are included in the price you pay. Otherwise it's the freight agencies who make the entries and pay the duties and they do that by having having a bond with HMRC which is regularly topped up. There is an accepted level of corruption but that again is covered by the MOU in respect of companies policies. What cannot be dealt with is the institutional corruption that is either crime or Political. TBF to the the EU/EEC, where it dealt dealt with the issues originally it was a godsend in terms of the basic computer programs that allowed LACES ( For those of you old enough to remember [London Airport Customs and Excise system]) The algorithms were based on the tariff number so you couldn't put the wrong rates in, the issue was the Tariff number you put in. Hence misdescription/Misdeclaration.

The result was automatic clearance of goods 30 mins after the entry was entered and the link between Entry number and manifests. Those clearances had to be manually overridden or would come up for exam if their was an RFC or reason for check. This was generally linked to Tariff number and COO .

The Pratts on both sides know this or they should be reminded and that why I read nothing into the wailing of those who think we'll come to grinding halt.
 
Utter pish and drivel, the only party in this being realistic is the UK govt, we know as do the Irish however we also acknowledge that ignoring the border will and has gone on since it was put in. We can manage goods entering GB through electronic customs management. Stuff entering NI legally the same. Illegal stuff will have to take its chances. Simply put every vehicle importing has an electronic manifest. Simply pull over wagons which havent submitted them somewhere before their final destination. NI, GB and RoI all understand this. It seems you dont understand how customs and excise work in the 21st Century.
Technically we have a hard border with France, the fact that I am rarely stopped is based upon C&E intelligence. I have been stopped a few times, they were profiling vehicle size and owners age for booze and fag smuggling
Apart from this is what we agreed, this is something negotiated by us:

1552041000162.png

Reality Check: Theresa May's deal with Brussels

The report to reflected in the WA in full detail. Now we've changed our minds because of the further right part of the Tory party. How's this going to look to any possible future trade negotiators approaching UK proposals?

I was stopped once, due to the company I was travelling with, blocked in and assume the position. In the parking pre ferry load, a tad excessive.
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
Apart from this is what we agreed, this is something negotiated by us:

View attachment 381386
Reality Check: Theresa May's deal with Brussels

The report to reflected in the WA in full detail. Now we've changed our minds because of the further right part of the Tory party. How's this going to look to any possible future trade negotiators approaching UK proposals?

I was stopped once, due to the company I was travelling with, blocked in and assume the position. In the parking pre ferry load, a tad excessive.
Agreed? By whom? Certainly not by parliament which is why we are in this mess. The negotiators signed up to something they must have known would not get through parliament, but went ahead anyway just to appease the EU.

The WA is neither agreed nor a document to take us out of the EU so parliament are quite right to block it, if for differing reasons!
 

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