Ambulance Service to get body cameras

Slime

LE
I assume only activated when necessary like police cameras

That’s what I heard during various news segments yesterday.
The cameras would have a button that could be pressed during the shift if a member of the public* became threatening to the ambulance worker.

*Patient privacy was mentioned, but it can be anyone who becomes a threat to the worker, not just a patient being treated. It could be a drug user trying to steal an ambulance, a criminal with a knife who had perhaps stabbed the victim the paramedic is treating at the time...........Or just the regular ‘dick’ who has no self respect for others trying to help them.
 
Like most these things, body cams, tasers for the police etc, I'm not fussed and really hope it helps protect those who come to help others. I know I'll never be on "Police/paramedic, camera, action!" as I'm not a cnut just as I know I'll never get tasered or shot by police for the self same reason. Protecting the blue light first responders has to come before some scrote's civil liberties.
 

Fr SpodoKomodo

War Hero
While this is a sad development, sad that it is necessary, I'm for it. I understand the clamour about patient privacy but I don't think it'd be an issue.

ISTR that when someone accesses an NHS medical record the system logs who, when, what they did and for how long, every single time. Even just opening a file without adding anything is logged. It was part of the the case against Harold Shipman, even in the late 1990s the software he was using was capable of secretly logged everything in the background, so when he went into patients records to change consultation details, trying to make out some innocent old biddy was previously showing signs of secret opiate abuse to cover the fact he'd later killed her with pethidine, it was logged without him knowing. I'd read something that access is audited too so someone accessing the record of a patient they weren't treating at the time is flagged up to management for investigation.

With the modern corporate obsession with data protection/GDPR I can't see how this video system wouldn't follow the same data protection protocol as medical records, since in a way they are a medical record in themselves? The access to the video would be meticulously controlled in the same way.

There are lots of documentary series about A&E, there's one on 5 I think called A&E after dark. Paramedics and all the staff in A&E from consultant to cleaner have to put up with some real scum every night, shouting and screaming, threatening assault, committing assault, a number of them putting people at risk of infectious disease like Hepatitis and HIV from their shared needle use. So if these cameras help lead to prosecution then I'm all for it. It's not really normal that most if not all of our A&Es have to have SIA licensed bouncers on the doors because of the risk of some of the clientele; Assaulting an emergency worker should be an automatic custodial sentence in my view.
 
As someone who uses BWV, might I put some comments here.

Our cameras have a honking great big toggle on the front that needs some force to activate. There is a 20 second pre-record feature, like you get on your dash cam.

Uploading footage is maintained under PACE, with full digital evidence chains. We do not get to see the footage, nor access to the files, so they can not be copied. We plug the camera in and it automatically uploads the file to the secure location.

This file is then retained for a period determined by the data protection policies. Then it is automatically deleted. If we need the footage we need to let our management know to save the footage. He is the only one allowed access.

I suspect that will be something roughly similar to what the ambulance service uses.
 
Will they get used for post incident reflection ie could we have done it better, used a different technique, show others how effective something can be etc?
 

RBMK

LE
Book Reviewer
My cousin is a 30 year paramedic and, as I've posted elsewhere, has some tales to tell. But what I can say is that they have been suffering increased attacks from people that they are trying to help, mainly drugged up or drunk idiots who don't think they need help despite having relatively serious injuries (head wounds, stab wounds, concussion etc). The other ones are the genuine mental health ones who have been let out into the community and then get into a fight or an accident and kick off at anyone within reach.

My cousin occasionally tells about scrotes such as the one who had to be restrained by 4 policemen and was strapped down to a stretcher whilst being treated for having half his face hanging off after a fight where knives were drawn. He was apparently as high as an Apollo moon shot on a cocktail of drugs and got into a fight after being refused entry to a pub and then turning on punters who were being allowed in.

This is evidently typical Friday / Saturday night fare. Please also bear in mind that there are quite a few female paramedics and ambulances that are double crewed female.

I'm only surprised they weren't carring body cams earlier.
 
Its a real and present danger to the responders.

Any genuine patient in need of attention’s last worry is a body cam.

The scum in society need a response that will hopefully curb their propensity for causing needless mayhem.
Tazers in the grab-bag?
 

Countryboy

Old-Salt
And the patient privacy?
It's a sad state of affairs that paramedics or first responders providing medical assistance to injured people are being offered this as a means to ensure their protection, or at least provide evidence for prosecution purposes if they're assaulted while attending the scene of an accident.. but people injured while under the influence of drink or drugs can be very violent even if they're pissing blood and need help... If things get out of hand at least the camera saves time when giving a statement to the police instead of writing out a lengthy report of what happened so the scrote can be banged up as "It's on the tape (sd card) officer"

If traffic wardens can have body cameras as part of their standard equipment (a surprising number of people are happy to spit on someone just because they get a parking ticket) then it's no surprise that paramedics get them as well..
The footage is bound to be used for some 'Paramedic! Camera! Action!' TV programme in future though. As the beancounters at various Police Forces are aware, there's money to be made from fly-on-the-wall action footage so there will be programme editors putting their pitch to the Ambulance Service already..
Indeed, it’s becoming more and more common. High Court Enforcement Officers, MOD Guard Service, even RNP now seem to have them so they will probably be the norm for all uniformed organisations in the future, like radios or safety boots.
 
probably be the norm for all uniformed organisations in the future, like radios or safety boots.
More and more cyclists, motor cyclists and drivers are using them. As they get smaller and more compact, more people may get them simply as a security feature.
 
A very serious issue.

No one would have any problem with ambulance staff getting all the protection they require in their very difficult job, but let's not pretend that everyone who works in the NHS is a selfless angel devoted to the care and welfare of others.

You can bet Tattersalls to a tin cup that some of this video coverage, if salacious enough or if of a celebrity in some sort of compromising situation, will make its way on to the internet, we know it will. As sure as the sun will rise tomorrow some little minimum-wage mouth breather working in admin will send clips of a good-looking woman lying naked in distress or a soap-opera star having an overdose to his mates by WhatsApp within minutes of it being uploaded to the filing system.

"Oh there will be very strict procedures in place to prevent this," yeah, sure there will.

Upload something without the relevant permission and your career in any medical profession is toast.
 
And to fill hours and hours of endless reality cop shows.
Which are filmed by film crews and identities are hidden.

Not the same thing. At all.

I have had the great misfortune to spend many hours over the last 4 weeks hanging around aimlessly outside Arrowe Park Hospital in Birkenhead whilst my very ill daughter has been receiving the most outstanding treatment.

Note I say “treatment”. Treatment is what you’d expect in a hospital. What has been some considerable way the other side of that has been “care” which is largely optional. The staff have been simply phenomenal and their care, encouragement and humanity has been no small part of her ongoing recovery. I don’t mind admitting their actions have moved me to tears on occasion.

It therefore grips my shit to an inordinate degree when I see that being thrown back in the faces of those same staff by legions of cheap tracksuit clad, 8 stone dripping wet, 2 Can van Damms, usually in need of treatment through their own moronic behaviour. I simply could not do it; treat someone with compassion and respect who has no intention of reciprocating. Many of them seem to see it as part of the game, kicking off. Pretty much 24/7 the police cars outnumber the ambulances outside A&E.

If the fitting of body cams gives these degenerates cause to think twice, or in the likely event they’re incapable of thought some evidence to ensure they face sanction then show me where to sign up to fund it.
 

theoriginalphantom

MIA
Book Reviewer
And the patient privacy?


We were trying to get some kind of body worn cam in 2000 ish, mainly for recording RTC's and the more major incidents. They'd have been useful for the after action write ups, training etc.
we never got as far as the legal implications as at the time there was nothing small enough with a decent battery and storage capacity within the budget (bugger all).

The recording of patients in a GP practice can be done with the patient consent as it's done for GP training, recordings are kept within the Caldecott principles for medical data and erased when no longer required.

recording in public spaces is perfectly fine as anyone can do that anyway. The only issues come when it's in the privacy of the ambulance or, of course, in a patients home.

If you'd seen the security for computer systems at some NHS trusts then you'd be fairly happy that your data, including video, is quite safe.
I'd be more worried about the loss of a camera or if it's able to be copied from the camera. I expect the police ones are more secure than just swapping a memory card over or plugging in a usb cable.
 
. I don’t mind admitting their actions have moved me to tears on occasion.

The President says you're a big poof!

giphy.gif


He also asked if Genghis Khan was coming to dinner last night . . . .
 

Nemesis44UK

LE
Book Reviewer
I think it's a great idea. I was looking to become a paramedic, but realised I simply don't have enough compassion to deal with the druggies, the drunks, the fighty chavs etc. Anyone coming onto my ambulance would likely die unexpectedly of air bubbles in the brain or something.
 
Upload something without the relevant permission and your career in any medical profession is toast.
You and @par avion appear to be under the illusion that everyone, including admin and auxiliary staff, in the police service or emergency services is a highly trained professional dedicated to their chosen career who would never, ever abuse their position of trust for monetary gain, or just because they want to WhatsApp some stupid shit to their mates.

The number of cases of unauthorised people accessing medical and police records (including serving officers in recent murder cases in London) should disabuse you of that notion.

They may get fired but they may not give a hoot one way or the other, and the damage has already been done.
 
You and @par avion appear to be under the illusion that everyone, including admin and auxiliary staff, in the police service or emergency services is a highly trained professional dedicated to their chosen career who would never, ever abuse their position of trust for monetary gain, or just because they want to WhatsApp some stupid shit to their mates.

The number of cases of unauthorised people accessing medical and police records (including serving officers in recent murder cases in London) should disabuse you of that notion.

They may get fired but they may not give a hoot one way or the other, and the damage has already been done.

I'm completely aware of who does what in what system thanks. I'm also aware of what the consequences are if you do.

You may have misunderstood what I was saying, I have no doubt people do stupid thing with the PNC, or medical record,s but you will know as well as I do, that when you're caught you pay a price.

For a plod accessing crim records for no reason, you'll be facing a without-coffee chat with a Senior Officer with possible disciplinary and possible dismissal
Access the medical records of your ex-Girlfriend because you're a paranoid ********, then likewise.

I wasn't saying that it won't happen, but they will need to be reminded that those posting a video of two blurry Paramedics online picking up a hot drunk semi-naked bird will be tracked down and dealt with accordingly.

Ask yourself, How many unauthorised UK Police body-cam vids have been released onto the web? Many?
 
I very much doubt it. The police have been using body cameras for some time and none of your fantasies have happened. As far as I am aware the footage is only retrieved when it is needed for court cases or to disprove complaints. There are strict rules of evidence governing it and a doubt if some 'minimun-wage mouth breather in admin will be posting clips of good looking naked women to his mates unless he want's to spend time as a guest of HM.

@devexwarrior may have more up to date info on this.
Most bwv systems work on a buffer. In standby mode they will record a 30 second or similar loop (possibly without sound) and when activated sound begins and the recording runs on. Even if not 'evidential' all our recordings are subject to the same data security rules as anything else on our systems so improper use of either the data or the system would be a contravention of the rules. There is also the capability to import footage from other means such as DVD or stick and also to email a link to a witness/victim to allow them to upload footage via email. This last bit is very helpful and just today gave me the evidence I need to send two people to court.
 
You and @par avion appear to be under the illusion that everyone, including admin and auxiliary staff, in the police service or emergency services is a highly trained professional dedicated to their chosen career who would never, ever abuse their position of trust for monetary gain, or just because they want to WhatsApp some stupid shit to their mates.

The number of cases of unauthorised people accessing medical and police records (including serving officers in recent murder cases in London) should disabuse you of that notion.

They may get fired but they may not give a hoot one way or the other, and the damage has already been done.

I think you overplay the access admin etc have and also the authority they have.

I’d go with the judgement of the trained front line professional to even create the tape in the first place by switching the thing on in the first place.

Admittedly I have zero knowledge and very limited experience but an interesting scenario played out in my above mentioned daughter’s recent interaction with the NHS:

On her admission to A&E we reported to the reception desk and were clearly told that as she was over 18, we had no right of access and please wait outside (in the pissing rain with a critically ill daughter on the inside).

Now, I get the need for Covid restrictions etc but to my mind, the little erk reading the script above took just a bit too much pleasure in delivering the news and didn’t make quite enough effort in containing her smug grin in actually welding her “authority”. I was obviously not alone as the charge nurse who came out to brief us up was fuming “reception clerks do not make those decisions, medical staff do” at which point both mother and I were whisked into be at our daughter’s side.

That is why I have every confidence in front line staff using this as an appropriate tool in the fight against fuckwitted chavery and equal confidence in fuckwitted admin getting nowhere near it. The former exercise judgement, the latter couldn’t even work out how to look up the meaning of it.
 
D

Deleted 4482

Guest
Most bwv systems work on a buffer. In standby mode they will record a 30 second or similar loop (possibly without sound) and when activated sound begins and the recording runs on. Even if not 'evidential' all our recordings are subject to the same data security rules as anything else on our systems so improper use of either the data or the system would be a contravention of the rules. There is also the capability to import footage from other means such as DVD or stick and also to email a link to a witness/victim to allow them to upload footage via email. This last bit is very helpful and just today gave me the evidence I need to send two people to court.
I find it quite amusing when I (often) log a complaint against police - review the log later and see a Sgt has looked at the BWV of the officer involved and it (mostly - Ive never actually seen one upheld myself) turns out the complainant was talking a load of bollocks and was lucky to have not been arrested etc.

They will then be informed of this and often make a further complaint demanding to see the footage themselves, and ask for a different Sgt than previous to deal with it. Its not normally your 'average scrote' who does this either -mainly people who consider themselves fine upstanding citizens who have brought themselves to police attention one way or another.

Recent example-Mrs Miggins is in a shop and upset about COVID compliance / facemasks etc. Kicks off and summons attention of passing cop and starts telling him the law etc etc.
 

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