Alzheimers; a right bastard

Schmoe

War Hero
Does anyone have experience of obtaining Power of Attorney ( health and financial) for a Dementia sufferer ?
My mother has dementia and now needs full time care but has always refused to grant POA to anyone. Is there a way of obtaining POA without having her Sectioned ? The care costs could be covered by her liquid assets, and ultimately by the cash left to her by my father after his death in February when probate is granted, In the meantime I'm looking down the barrel of £ 850 a week.
Having her Sectioned seems a horribly invasive way of going about things.
Any thoughts wold be greatly appreciated.
Have just been through getting POA for my parents, which if you read my previous posts caused more than a few problems.

Sadly, I think you may have missed the window for getting them in place. I think she is now likely to be covered by the Office of the Public Guardian, which is a bureaucratic nightmare.

Hope that I am wrong and that you can get something in place.

Good luck.
 
Have just been through getting POA for my parents, which if you read my previous posts caused more than a few problems.

Sadly, I think you may have missed the window for getting them in place. I think she is now likely to be covered by the Office of the Public Guardian, which is a bureaucratic nightmare.

Hope that I am wrong and that you can get something in place.

Good luck.
Schmoe,
Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately I think you are right and that glow in the west wasn't the sunset, but hope disappearing over the horizon with its arse on fire. Short of some very creative accounting I think there may be some challenging times ahead. On top of the current challenges that is.
Take care.
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer
Schmoe,
Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately I think you are right and that glow in the west wasn't the sunset, but hope disappearing over the horizon with its arse on fire. Short of some very creative accounting I think there may be some challenging times ahead. On top of the current challenges that is.
Take care.
You can only do your best. Good luck.

A salutary lesson to all who have not thought about and actioned this in advance. In this day and age I think it's more important than a Will.
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer
What`s that Power of Attorney, what does it entail, what is the upside or downside

Archie
Lots of detail on the Government website, but to summarise. POA is necessary so you can give trusted people responsibility for your finances and health decisions when you can't. The health one is important as your end of life decisions, particularly regarding treatment, can be confusing. (A wish for 'no medical intervention ' means no pain relief, for instance. A trusted attorney could say pain relief and water would be ok.)

I had one in place since divorce, aged 40 - if I had been ill/in a coma, friends would have sorted keeping my bills paid so offspring had a roof over his head. Nowadays it is more about dementia and he's old enough (maybe not wise enough) to be my Attorney, supported by a good friend of mine who is wise.

They cost a bit to set up and register, but are quite easy to activate when the time comes, supported by the GP.

My advice is DO IT and talk to your attorneys about your wishes. You only have to read this thread to see why.
 
Lots of detail on the Government website, but to summarise. POA is necessary so you can give trusted people responsibility for your finances and health decisions when you can't. The health one is important as your end of life decisions, particularly regarding treatment, can be confusing. (A wish for 'no medical intervention ' means no pain relief, for instance. A trusted attorney could say pain relief and water would be ok.)

I had one in place since divorce, aged 40 - if I had been ill/in a coma, friends would have sorted keeping my bills paid so offspring had a roof over his head. Nowadays it is more about dementia and he's old enough (maybe not wise enough) to be my Attorney, supported by a good friend of mine who is wise.

They cost a bit to set up and register, but are quite easy to activate when the time comes, supported by the GP.

My advice is DO IT and talk to your attorneys about your wishes. You only have to read this thread to see why.
I would like to echo the points raised by GR. We were fortunate with my old man, that my dad, my sister and I - we were executioners of the will over the other siblings - and had taken care of POA when he last changed his will, before the dreaded dementia hit.

If nothing else, posters of the future should get this done ASAP
 
The health one is important as your end of life decisions, particularly regarding treatment, can be confusing. (A wish for 'no medical intervention ' means no pain relief, for instance. A trusted attorney could say pain relief and water would be ok.)

I had one in place since divorce, aged 40 - if I had been ill/in a coma, friends would have sorted keeping my bills paid so offspring had a roof over his head. Nowadays it is more about dementia and he's old enough (maybe not wise enough) to be my Attorney, supported by a good friend of mine who is wise.

They cost a bit to set up and register, but are quite easy to activate when the time comes, supported by the GP.
My bold. Totally unaware of that, I thought POA was financial only. Thanks.
 

Just_plain_you

Old-Salt
Going through the LPA process right now for an elderly relative. Very easy, forms available online, print, get signed / witnessed and post off. £82 each.

You can notify someone of the process and they can object during the 4 week cooling off period before the powers are granted. I have notified another family member formally and sent the forms to others so that there is no hint of any coercion / malfeasance.
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer
My bold. Totally unaware of that, I thought POA was financial only. Thanks.
Nowadays you have to have two. My first one was for financial matters only but the law changed.
 

Schmoe

War Hero
Use the government website, very easy to do, and costs a fraction of the cost of a solicitor.

Most importantly, once they arrive, photocopy and get the people involved to sign them, this gives you copies to send to relevant authorities. Or do as we have, and keep them locked in a safe for the day that you need them.
 
Ok folks, here's the latest in Mrs Daves saga:

You may remember that she was diagnosed with Normal Pressure Hydrocephalus (NPH) late last year and had an operation to insert a shunt in her brain to drain the cerebro-spinal fluid into her stomach where it will disperse naturally. The cerebro-spinal fluid was/is filling up the ventricles in the brain and eating away brain cells, thus she suffers from memory loss, etc.

Well, yesterday we had her 6-monthly appointment at the local psychological/psychiatric Centre to check on her medication (I thought) and I was told by the specialist the findings were that they don't think she suffers from NPH. Apparently, she is not showing signs of dementia (which NPH is a branch of) her problem is vascular, but they can't pin it down to a type - basically because she was the first person to be diagnosed with NPH at the Centre they were just (my words next) fishing around trying to tie all the symptoms together to get a diagnosis.

What the neurological hospital who operated on her will make of that is anybody's business - we'll be seeing them early next year.

In the meantime I/we have to carry on as though that diagnosis has not been mentioned - she is still unsteady on her feet, her toilet is still causing problems and her memory is good occasionally but appalling on other days, as is her ability to have a constructive conversation. I was asked who cooked and cleaned (me!!) and when I told the specialist the reasons why he fully agreed with that decision - the fact that Mrs Dave cannot stand in one position for longer than a minute also has a bearing on her ability to cook and clean.

She is also prone to picking up on very small parts of a conversation and drilling down to find out the meaning of the conversation. After a grilling of over 45 minutes the other day I went bananas and shouted at her - I know I shouldn't have done but she was repeating and repeating and repeating the same thing over and over again. I don't feel proud of myself but how else do you release your pent-up emotions? She will not accept time in respite care or be out of my or her sisters company for more than 2 hours and so when this happens I do a quick dash to her sisters (she lives next door, thank God) and let my emotions go and by doing so is part of the healing process. As her sister takes her out in the morning (which allows me to clean the house) she has a good idea of the situation.

Mrs Dave was going through some old photos the other day with the idea of updating our family rogues gallery and found the photo of her jumping out of her limo on the day of our wedding - she was bereft for ages and after a couple of hours said "have I got dementia?" What do you say to that? Well, I said nothing, I didn't want to distress her any more. It wasn't helped a few days later when Barbara Windsor was mentioned on the news and they interviewed a couple where the wife had dementia. "I've got that, haven't I?" Jesus, twice in a week...

Ho hum....life would be really boring if everything was hunky-dory, wouldn't it? I wouldn't know what to do with myself (I've a good couple of ideas but they're not for this forum :) ) Thank God for our feral housebound cat, Poppy. Without her I'd be going round the bend, too.
 

Schmoe

War Hero
Ok folks, here's the latest in Mrs Daves saga:

You may remember that she was diagnosed with Normal Pressure Hydrocephalus (NPH) late last year and had an operation to insert a shunt in her brain to drain the cerebro-spinal fluid into her stomach where it will disperse naturally. The cerebro-spinal fluid was/is filling up the ventricles in the brain and eating away brain cells, thus she suffers from memory loss, etc.

Well, yesterday we had her 6-monthly appointment at the local psychological/psychiatric Centre to check on her medication (I thought) and I was told by the specialist the findings were that they don't think she suffers from NPH. Apparently, she is not showing signs of dementia (which NPH is a branch of) her problem is vascular, but they can't pin it down to a type - basically because she was the first person to be diagnosed with NPH at the Centre they were just (my words next) fishing around trying to tie all the symptoms together to get a diagnosis.

What the neurological hospital who operated on her will make of that is anybody's business - we'll be seeing them early next year.

In the meantime I/we have to carry on as though that diagnosis has not been mentioned - she is still unsteady on her feet, her toilet is still causing problems and her memory is good occasionally but appalling on other days, as is her ability to have a constructive conversation. I was asked who cooked and cleaned (me!!) and when I told the specialist the reasons why he fully agreed with that decision - the fact that Mrs Dave cannot stand in one position for longer than a minute also has a bearing on her ability to cook and clean.

She is also prone to picking up on very small parts of a conversation and drilling down to find out the meaning of the conversation. After a grilling of over 45 minutes the other day I went bananas and shouted at her - I know I shouldn't have done but she was repeating and repeating and repeating the same thing over and over again. I don't feel proud of myself but how else do you release your pent-up emotions? She will not accept time in respite care or be out of my or her sisters company for more than 2 hours and so when this happens I do a quick dash to her sisters (she lives next door, thank God) and let my emotions go and by doing so is part of the healing process. As her sister takes her out in the morning (which allows me to clean the house) she has a good idea of the situation.

Mrs Dave was going through some old photos the other day with the idea of updating our family rogues gallery and found the photo of her jumping out of her limo on the day of our wedding - she was bereft for ages and after a couple of hours said "have I got dementia?" What do you say to that? Well, I said nothing, I didn't want to distress her any more. It wasn't helped a few days later when Barbara Windsor was mentioned on the news and they interviewed a couple where the wife had dementia. "I've got that, haven't I?" Jesus, twice in a week...

Ho hum....life would be really boring if everything was hunky-dory, wouldn't it? I wouldn't know what to do with myself (I've a good couple of ideas but they're not for this forum :) ) Thank God for our feral housebound cat, Poppy. Without her I'd be going round the bend, too.
Christ, this sounds familiar.

With my Mum, my Dad was in denial for a long time, and wouldn’t allow anyone to mention the ‘D’ word.

Finally my wife pointed out that this left my Mum all alone with her thoughts.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, it might be better if you actually talk about the elephant in the room, it’s happening, it’s now, and it might actually allow her to deal better with the situation, rather than feeling that’s she is going nuts.

But this is your call, you know what’s best.

Sorry that you have this horrible decision.

All the best.
 
Ok folks, here's the latest in Mrs Daves saga:

You may remember that she was diagnosed with Normal Pressure Hydrocephalus (NPH) late last year and had an operation to insert a shunt in her brain to drain the cerebro-spinal fluid into her stomach where it will disperse naturally. The cerebro-spinal fluid was/is filling up the ventricles in the brain and eating away brain cells, thus she suffers from memory loss, etc.

Well, yesterday we had her 6-monthly appointment at the local psychological/psychiatric Centre to check on her medication (I thought) and I was told by the specialist the findings were that they don't think she suffers from NPH. Apparently, she is not showing signs of dementia (which NPH is a branch of) her problem is vascular, but they can't pin it down to a type - basically because she was the first person to be diagnosed with NPH at the Centre they were just (my words next) fishing around trying to tie all the symptoms together to get a diagnosis.

What the neurological hospital who operated on her will make of that is anybody's business - we'll be seeing them early next year.

In the meantime I/we have to carry on as though that diagnosis has not been mentioned - she is still unsteady on her feet, her toilet is still causing problems and her memory is good occasionally but appalling on other days, as is her ability to have a constructive conversation. I was asked who cooked and cleaned (me!!) and when I told the specialist the reasons why he fully agreed with that decision - the fact that Mrs Dave cannot stand in one position for longer than a minute also has a bearing on her ability to cook and clean.

She is also prone to picking up on very small parts of a conversation and drilling down to find out the meaning of the conversation. After a grilling of over 45 minutes the other day I went bananas and shouted at her - I know I shouldn't have done but she was repeating and repeating and repeating the same thing over and over again. I don't feel proud of myself but how else do you release your pent-up emotions? She will not accept time in respite care or be out of my or her sisters company for more than 2 hours and so when this happens I do a quick dash to her sisters (she lives next door, thank God) and let my emotions go and by doing so is part of the healing process. As her sister takes her out in the morning (which allows me to clean the house) she has a good idea of the situation.

Mrs Dave was going through some old photos the other day with the idea of updating our family rogues gallery and found the photo of her jumping out of her limo on the day of our wedding - she was bereft for ages and after a couple of hours said "have I got dementia?" What do you say to that? Well, I said nothing, I didn't want to distress her any more. It wasn't helped a few days later when Barbara Windsor was mentioned on the news and they interviewed a couple where the wife had dementia. "I've got that, haven't I?" Jesus, twice in a week...

Ho hum....life would be really boring if everything was hunky-dory, wouldn't it? I wouldn't know what to do with myself (I've a good couple of ideas but they're not for this forum :) ) Thank God for our feral housebound cat, Poppy. Without her I'd be going round the bend, too.
As Schmoe said, try talking about it, ducking the issue is helping nobody. It is possible that the more information she has about her condition the better she will be able to deal with it.
I very much understand how you lost it and got shouty.
This next bit is important.
You have a duty of care to look after yourself, mentally and physically, first, before anyone else. If you go u/s because you haven't had the time or space to decompress then (a) all your efforts to date have come to naught (b) someone else has to pick up where you left off (c) you will become part of the problem. There is lots of help out there, apart from the official NHS sources ask friends and, however distant, family, people want to help: let them.
Apologies if it seems like I'm teaching you to suck eggs, but if you don't look after yourself you're no use to anyone.
Good luck and God Bless.
 

MrBane

LE
Moderator
Kit Reviewer
Reviews Editor
I spent yesterday going about trying to find an 82 year lady old who was reported by the Chinese takeaway as she came in soaked from the pissing rain asking for a ice cream before wandering back out again with no jacket on.

Finally found her and managed to figure out where she lived, she'd been walking all day with no idea where she was.

Carried her up the stairs to her 2nd floor flat as she was too tired to get herself up them and managed to get the daughter out.

Daughter, mid 60s refused to acknowledge the potential for Alzheimer's or Dementia and flat out didn't care.

Makes me sick.

I've also been involved in a few missing person cases based on Alzheimer's which has resulted in a deceased.

Track them - 3 trackers minimum. One in favourite jacket, one in a handbag and one in or on something else they're likely to take.

Cameras in their home. One at door facing in - if they leave, we'll know what they were wearing and what they took. It also lets you see they're in the house and safe. Use Hive or Nest or something.

It's a shite disease.
 

DAS

Old-Salt
My father has a mixed diagnosis of Alzheimer's and dementia. He doesn't even remember his wife of 45 years is gone.
 
Been a bad few years in the Norfolk household. My Mum was diagnosed with Alzheimer's 3 years ago and it was a fight to take her away from my Dad but after a lot of soul searching and a few home truths we got her into a care home. I think the final straw for my dad was the 'who are you' question which knocked him for six, they had been married for 60+ years. Since then he went down hill, we all tried to get him out and about but always turned us down at the last minute. He failed to go to the Doctors with problems until finally on the 6th June, of all days, he passed away from various ailments but most of all a broken heart. Luckily, some may say, we were at his bedside when passed away. Now the fight continues over Court Protection over my Mum. The bank has frozen my Dads account and transferred all to my Mum. It's a catch 22, who pays the care home from the bank who will not release the cash however the DWP want it to pay the Home. Having 7 kids was a bonus as we have all clubbed together without a bitching session. The fight continues. To all others in this situation stay strong and be there for each other.
 
I'd seen this thread, but avoided looking. Hurt to much, in fact it still ******* hurts! Two and half years on, this is the first time I've sat down and wrote about my feelings. My brother refuses to talk, sister and I don't really talk (nothing in common what ever).
We lost my Father, from Louis Body Dementia. What a bastard way to go! If anyone's on here seen his models I posted in the Military Modellers, will have seen what a talented bloke he was.
After NS, he trained as an Architect and was responsible for a number large buildings and Barn Conversions in our area and Sth Essex.
He'd quit modelling because he couldn't concentrate properly anymore, starting around 5 years ago.
A year later, he really started behaving strangely, blood tests, etc "we think dementia, may be etc"
And over the last 18 months of his life a rapid down hill spiral, Mother had to have Doctor out 4 or 5 times and in the last 6 month Ambulance out three times. The last time was his final trip, didn't return home. Mum was hopeful, but in her heart I think she knew. My Brother and I had a incling, but didn't say ow't! Two days later he fell into a coma and never came back!
Mum and him were married in Sept 1952, the longest they were apart in all that time was 3 days. He'd gone to Amsterdam for a building conference. Mum, I feel has started to lose the will to live, I really had to tell her off last week.
Comedian Robin Williams topped himself, he'd recently found out, his diagnosis was the same shit of a illness, Louis Body Dementia. After seeing what Dad went through.. I don't really blame him.
RIP DAD.
LEONARD FREDERICK GEORGE BURRELL.
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer
I'd seen this thread, but avoided looking. Hurt to much, in fact it still ******* hurts! Two and half years on, this is the first time I've sat down and wrote about my feelings. My brother refuses to talk, sister and I don't really talk (nothing in common what ever).
We lost my Father, from Louis Body Dementia. What a bastard way to go! If anyone's on here seen his models I posted in the Military Modellers, will have seen what a talented bloke he was.
After NS, he trained as an Architect and was responsible for a number large buildings and Barn Conversions in our area and Sth Essex.
He'd quit modelling because he couldn't concentrate properly anymore, starting around 5 years ago.
A year later, he really started behaving strangely, blood tests, etc "we think dementia, may be etc"
And over the last 18 months of his life a rapid down hill spiral, Mother had to have Doctor out 4 or 5 times and in the last 6 month Ambulance out three times. The last time was his final trip, didn't return home. Mum was hopeful, but in her heart I think she knew. My Brother and I had a incling, but didn't say ow't! Two days later he fell into a coma and never came back!
Mum and him were married in Sept 1952, the longest they were apart in all that time was 3 days. He'd gone to Amsterdam for a building conference. Mum, I feel has started to lose the will to live, I really had to tell her off last week.
Comedian Robin Williams topped himself, he'd recently found out, his diagnosis was the same shit of a illness, Louis Body Dementia. After seeing what Dad went through.. I don't really blame him.
RIP DAD.
LEONARD FREDERICK GEORGE BURRELL.
So sorry to hear that. It sounds vile.

Do your best to keep your Mum on track. It's all any of us can do.

Look after yourself.
 

Zulu95

Swinger
I have been through it twice with both my father-in-law and mother-in-law. FIL started showing symptoms around 80. We brought an attorney out to his home as FIL was going down very fast. We got all the paperwork completed and in force just before he lost his ability to write and form intelligent sentences. He died within two years of diagnoses.
He had been a Cornell educated Mechanical Engineer, WWII OSS Detachment 101 vet who was wounded three times and a VP of production at a local engineering works.
MIL decided to do the paperwork at the same time putting everything in the hands of my wife. Almost twenty years later she started to decline. She moved in with us for her last six years and died just after her hundredth birthday. By then she had no idea where she was, who we were and what had happened to her long dead mother/father/brothers/husband.
It is very hard to watch, even from the periphery let alone if it is your parent. Remember you must take care of the care giver. It is important you get your rest, eat/sleep as well as you can and get mental breaks. If you don't the caregiver will end up almost as bad as the patient.
 

Schmoe

War Hero
Been a while since I’ve posted, but I guess today is as good as any other.

Was working this morning and got a call from my Dad, ‘Mums fallen over, and he can’t get her up’.

Phoned the office and told them I was going to my parents, and the lorry will be back in the yard.

Phoned the wife, she heads over to help.

Arrive, my Dads angry, my Mums on the floor beside the bed, and my wife is there ready to assist.

After a bit of a struggle we manage to get my mum back up onto the bed, where I leave her with my wife to recuperate a bit.

Make some tea, dole it out, and head to the conservatory with my old man, to wind him down.

The reason he’s angry, is that she’d fallen on one side of the bed, and against his wishes had crawled/wriggled her way to the other side saying that she could get up.

Bit of a brief conversation that he shouldn’t be angry that she’s trying to help herself, even though she wasn’t getting up without help.

After about 1/2 an hour, Mums wondering why we are in the house, and has forgotten everything.

A few good things that have/might come out of this are as follows.

He was sensible enough not to try and lift her himself, he realises that if he knackers himself, it’s going to be even worse than now.

He is now supposedly actively seeking more outside help, which would be a massive assistance to us, as we are coming to a time where we can’t actually do anymore than we are now, and things are only going to get worse.

Had a chat with him about money, and repeated yet again that he should spend whatever they have on themselves, and **** trying to pass on an inheritance to my brothers and sisters, they don’t deserve it, as they are conspicuously absent, and I would rather they spent money on themselves to make life easier for them, (and us).

So have his agreement to find a decent bathroom fitter to convert the bathroom to something a bit more user friendly, and to get the conservatory made into something he can use to get away from my mum when he needs a rest.

It’s a really shit time watching my mum degenerate from a very clever, witty person, into a shell of a person.

It’s even shittier watching my Dad trying to cope, being proud and slowly going under.

Sadly, I think he will go first, as he had a heart attack last January, and needs to be careful himself.

One thing is for sure, once they’ve gone, I am going to go absolutely ******* Tonto at my brothers and sister, and after that disown them, nasty cnuts that they are.

Anyway, end of ramble, does me good to get it off my chest.

Ta
 
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