Allowances for armed forces to be slashed (Telegraph)

#2
Remember the Christmas bonus that was employed to cover up a gap in pay? Lol. Wonder if a similar ploy will be used this time once the public expresses rage
 
#3
Remember the Christmas bonus that was employed to cover up a gap in pay? Lol. Wonder if a similar ploy will be used this time once the public expresses rage
I don't think you'll find the public "expressing rage" any time soon. Many of the public have taken quite a big hit in the last year or two and will not be too bothered about HM Forces doing the same. Wake up. Smell coffee.
 
#4
Perks for senior officers, such as payment for chefs, cleaners, drivers and gardeners, will also be slashed
Oh the shame of it, imagine having to cook, clean & drive yourself .... like the rest of the world. :-(

I can see a lot of them resigning over this, well we can live in hope. ;-)
 
#5
[Perks for senior officers, such as payment for chefs, cleaners, drivers and gardeners, will also be slashed
Oh the shame of it, imagine having to cook, clean & drive yourself .... like the rest of the world. :-(

I can see a lot of them resigning over this, well we can live in hope. ;-)
should we hope that our top blokes resgn? I think not. while a chef, driver and DA may look extravegant, you could considr it in two other ways:

firstly, consider the huge budgets that 2 stars control. compare that to a civilian equivielnt, who doesnt get a "free" chef, or cleaner, but probably gets a driver, and certainly gets paid considerably more than a 2 star, so can emply a cleaner if they wish.

or...

given the wage of a 2 star (over 100K, but not as much as a civy equivilent), if he spends hours a week cleaning, an drives to his own meetings, we will get less value for money from him.
 
#6
Defence sources have revealed the review will also bring to an end the payment of allowances which currently do not require receipts, such as the cost for meals and fuel during trips away from a serviceman's base.

In future all personnel will have to pay up front and then claim back what is owed to them providing the cost can be supported by a valid receipt.
The only non-receipted allowance I am aware of is IE. Meals and fuel still require receipts and only get paid after the expenditure has occurred! Quality reporting, once again designed to make it sound like those of us in the forces are on a gravy train similar to the MPs.
 
#7
Under the generous allowances scheme pilots are still paid the full "flying pay" for three years once they have left a "flying job".

The rate of specialist pay reduces to 75 per cent in the fourth year, 50 per cent in the fifth, 25 per cent in the sixth and ceases in the seventh. It is the same principle for all other recipients of specialist pay in all services.


Very hard to argue against this particularly once you get to the stage where it's been 4,5,6 years since someone's been active in the roll (and would need expensive refresher / retraining to resume it). Even worse if someone is moved because they can't hack or perform in that role. There is a similar situation in the civil service where by someone can change departments or rolls completely while retaining their previous salary i.e 40k manager transfers to 20k lowerscale job but still gets paid 40k - it's just wrong.


given the wage of a 2 star (over 100K, but not as much as a civy equivilent), if he spends hours a week cleaning, an drives to his own meetings, we will get less value for money from him.[/QUOTE]

Surely you wouldn't deny our top brass the opportunity to squeeze into their lacy little french maid outfits and run the hoover round while wifey watches on with her gimp mask, rubber cat suit and whip!
 
E

EScotia

Guest
#8
[Perks for senior officers, such as payment for chefs, cleaners, drivers and gardeners, will also be slashed

should we hope that our top blokes resgn? I think not. while a chef, driver and DA may look extravegant, you could considr it in two other ways:

firstly, consider the huge budgets that 2 stars control. compare that to a civilian equivielnt, who doesnt get a "free" chef, or cleaner, but probably gets a driver, and certainly gets paid considerably more than a 2 star, so can emply a cleaner if they wish.

or...

given the wage of a 2 star (over 100K, but not as much as a civy equivilent), if he spends hours a week cleaning, an drives to his own meetings, we will get less value for money from him.
The budget a 2 star controls is a red herring IMO. Chefs can be supplied by a PID from a suitable nearby unit that's on PAYD (a nice to have on a Chefs CV), Driver the same (possibly an injured person who is otherwise MND) and gardners/cleaners, whats wrong with the contract maintenance from the Garrison? Waiters supplied by suitable volunteers from nearby units who can be paid from the entertainment allowance.
 
#9
Don't focus on the Brass, try and identify whats getting chopped from the rank and file.

I've got no idea, I'm no longer in, can't take the Telegraph as gospel either
 

Guns

ADC
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Book Reviewer
#10
The specialist pay one is always raised but if you want pilots/submariners etc to go and do policy jobs, teaching jobs or other career enhancing work then return to front line duties you need to allow for that in their pay. Otherwise no one would want to do those jobs and then were will you be.

Senior Officer perks makes me laugh. The very senior people (RN here) who get that level of support normally get it because they are expected to entertain officially. So what will happen is we will get rid of the chefs, housekeepers and drivers then some paper will complain as the contracts to cover these jobs is greater than the original situation. Drivers is an interesting one. Senior Officers get nominated drivers as they spend an awful lot of time in the car between events. In the car business gets discussed or phone calls made, and they can be of a sensitive nature. So even if you go down the route of pool car drivers for everyone you either accept a drop in productive of the officer (no business in the car) or pay extra to have security cleared personnel.

Oh and on the old fav of grace and favour homes, and this is Navy specific, they tend to be on base so you can't sell them and used to host visiting VIPs. In the Navy it is not uncommon for Senior Officers to be running two houses, the grace and favour and their own which they will have had for years and will keep. Why two? Well a Flag Officer in the Navy will find out about 6-9 months prior to posting if there is a job for them. No job, then thats it - discharge. So guess what they want to keep their family homes. The grace and favour homes then get used for all sorts of entertaining (Elizabeth Medal presentations, dinner parties for serving person (ie Command Warrant Officers get together with CINC in a free and frank discussion), hosting VIPs who may be Government sponsored thus saving money on the taxpayer from hotels)
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#11
The specialist pay one is always raised but if you want pilots/submariners etc to go and do policy jobs, teaching jobs or other career enhancing work then return to front line duties you need to allow for that in their pay. Otherwise no one would want to do those jobs and then were will you be.

Senior Officer perks makes me laugh. The very senior people (RN here) who get that level of support normally get it because they are expected to entertain officially. So what will happen is we will get rid of the chefs, housekeepers and drivers then some paper will complain as the contracts to cover these jobs is greater than the original situation. Drivers is an interesting one. Senior Officers get nominated drivers as they spend an awful lot of time in the car between events. In the car business gets discussed or phone calls made, and they can be of a sensitive nature. So even if you go down the route of pool car drivers for everyone you either accept a drop in productive of the officer (no business in the car) or pay extra to have security cleared personnel.

Oh and on the old fav of grace and favour homes, and this is Navy specific, they tend to be on base so you can't sell them and used to host visiting VIPs. In the Navy it is not uncommon for Senior Officers to be running two houses, the grace and favour and their own which they will have had for years and will keep. Why two? Well a Flag Officer in the Navy will find out about 6-9 months prior to posting if there is a job for them. No job, then thats it - discharge. So guess what they want to keep their family homes. The grace and favour homes then get used for all sorts of entertaining (Elizabeth Medal presentations, dinner parties for serving person (ie Command Warrant Officers get together with CINC in a free and frank discussion), hosting VIPs who may be Government sponsored thus saving money on the taxpayer from hotels)
While I appreciate the great work that our chiefs do, just how much 'entertaining' and 'socialising' should they be required to do, and who of?

Would they not be better employed actually working full time in the military-supporting duties, and spending the rest of their time either off with their families or getting needed down-time?

I'm sure it would be a great deal cheaper all round if we employed professional arse-kissers and glad-handers on much lower wages who shared cheaper 'entertaining' facilities with other branches of the services. If we are paying 100k plus for a two-star, are we really getting our money's worth if we then spend another 100k so he can throw parties or show kit off to foreign johnnies?

Let's get these penny-pinching suited cretins in the MOD or Whitehall to work on getting defence contracts instead - basically, hands off our uniformed people, they train for and fight wars, not sell jets to the Saudis.
 
#12
Perks for senior officers, such as payment for chefs, cleaners, drivers and gardeners, will also be slashed
Oh the shame of it, imagine having to cook, clean & drive yourself .... like the rest of the world. :-(

I can see a lot of them resigning over this, well we can live in hope. ;-)
So the government expect 2**s to wine & dine foreign dignatries in order that we can sell them weapons, training and generally up our trade but thet expect Mrs 2** to roll up her sleeves to cook & wash up, I don't think so. Many of you will just say that they should use their Mess but that Mess is the home (and paid for) by the officers who live in it they do not want to be constantly excluded because the GOC needs it for official entertainment.
 

Guns

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#13
While I appreciate the great work that our chiefs do, just how much 'entertaining' and 'socialising' should they be required to do, and who of?

Would they not be better employed actually working full time in the military-supporting duties, and spending the rest of their time either off with their families or getting needed down-time?

I'm sure it would be a great deal cheaper all round if we employed professional arse-kissers and glad-handers on much lower wages who shared cheaper 'entertaining' facilities with other branches of the services. If we are paying 100k plus for a two-star, are we really getting our money's worth if we then spend another 100k so he can throw parties or show kit off to foreign johnnies?

Let's get these penny-pinching suited cretins in the MOD or Whitehall to work on getting defence contracts instead - basically, hands off our uniformed people, they train for and fight wars, not sell jets to the Saudis.
Because the people being hosted want to talk to the Chiefs not some PR stooge. If that was the case they might as well as send an email. A large part of the Service Chiefs job is to be the public face of the RN/RM/Army/RAF and so will be in demand. Having worked closely with senior officers I know how little time off they get and how on the job they are all the time. And as I mentioned asking the wife to lend a hand is not going to go down well - many of them have careers in their own rights and don't live in the grace and favour houses.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#14
Because the people being hosted want to talk to the Chiefs not some PR stooge. If that was the case they might as well as send an email. A large part of the Service Chiefs job is to be the public face of the RN/RM/Army/RAF and so will be in demand. Having worked closely with senior officers I know how little time off they get and how on the job they are all the time. And as I mentioned asking the wife to lend a hand is not going to go down well - many of them have careers in their own rights and don't live in the grace and favour houses.
I do appreciate that they work hard, but the 'Entertainment Paradigm' needs to change from the top (Whitehall) down. Why is it the job of the service sheds to entertain people? I might agree that it is the duty (if you like) of the chiefs of the services to play the political game, but of the lower ranks too? Why? What will a foreign dignitary get from a two star that he wouldn't get from a chief?

I personally think that the whole requirement of foreign civilians or civilians in the UK to schmooze over dinner with blokes in uniform is just another form of an ego reacharound, being offered by this government at the expense of the officers concerned, and merely for the benefit of government business.

If they do not wish to fund it, get someone else to do it. Like I say, funded or not, I do not believe that our officers should be used to kiss civilian arrses - we have politicians and suited civil servants who's job that is.
 
#15
I agree with ending the residual payments of spec pay. Once you cease to be in that role, then the payment ceases... simples. In the event of there being a true reservist/call back element to the role, then by all means pay could continue for that period, regardless of it being full or a percentage.

The money saved could be used else where or used to increase the payment awarded in role. If there is a drama with that, then the receipiants should a) learn to live within their means and treat the extra pay as a windfall or b) take out spec pay insurance such as Towergate Wilsons loss of pilot pay scheme.

CEA is a toughy. In someways it only benefits a select few, however why shouldn't service kids NOT have stable learning environments?

This WHOLE saving thing is about saving money NOW, NOW, NOW and I would like to know if ANYONE has an eye to the future? Once these allowances are removed I have a feeling that people will walk or it will be harder to find people to do those jobs.

Regards receipts then receive payment. This system has been in force for years. However, that said I have received money up front for courses before now. But given the fact that was to cover the cost of a hotel (for three) for nearly three weeks the Treasury can go fcuk themselves if they think I'll pay out nearly 2 grand and only claim it back at the end of the course.....
 
#16
I do appreciate that they work hard, but the 'Entertainment Paradigm' needs to change from the top (Whitehall) down. Why is it the job of the service sheds to entertain people? I might agree that it is the duty (if you like) of the chiefs of the services to play the political game, but of the lower ranks too? Why? What will a foreign dignitary get from a two star that he wouldn't get from a chief?

I personally think that the whole requirement of foreign civilians or civilians in the UK to schmooze over dinner with blokes in uniform is just another form of an ego reacharound, being offered by this government at the expense of the officers concerned, and merely for the benefit of government business.

If they do not wish to fund it, get someone else to do it. Like I say, funded or not, I do not believe that our officers should be used to kiss civilian arrses - we have politicians and suited civil servants who's job that is.[/QUOTE]

Can I take it you aren't a fan of community engagement then?
 
#17
Should a OC Sqn shell out for a barby for all of the Sgts and above?

A Signals OC I had used to do that, at least every 3 or 4 months. For some 25 SNCOs, WO and Officers (fraus too).

A damned good sqn it was too. We also had a fair few sqn bops and drinkies.
 
#18
I don't think you'll find the public "expressing rage" any time soon. Many of the public have taken quite a big hit in the last year or two and will not be too bothered about HM Forces doing the same. Wake up. Smell coffee.
Depends which allowances are being hit. I don't think the government would be so stupid to hit the allowances of personnel serving in Afghanistan, but you're absolutely right about the rest. Removing a gardener's allowance from a non-operational senior officer? Carry on - no outrage at all.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#19
I do appreciate that they work hard, but the 'Entertainment Paradigm' needs to change from the top (Whitehall) down. Why is it the job of the service sheds to entertain people? I might agree that it is the duty (if you like) of the chiefs of the services to play the political game, but of the lower ranks too? Why? What will a foreign dignitary get from a two star that he wouldn't get from a chief?

I personally think that the whole requirement of foreign civilians or civilians in the UK to schmooze over dinner with blokes in uniform is just another form of an ego reacharound, being offered by this government at the expense of the officers concerned, and merely for the benefit of government business.

If they do not wish to fund it, get someone else to do it. Like I say, funded or not, I do not believe that our officers should be used to kiss civilian arrses - we have politicians and suited civil servants who's job that is.[/QUOTE]

Can I take it you aren't a fan of community engagement then?
I'm all for community engagement. Does that happen in opulent and palatial grace and favour homes with teams of cleaners and servants then?

As for the matter of CEA - That should be left well and truly alone, and if anything, extended. As C.F. said - the value of continuity during the formative years for children is incalculable, and for those in the services with children; if they see their children's development suffering due to being moved from pillar to post because they cannot afford to keep them in decent boarding schools, they'll simply bail out. Their families will come first and the armed forces will lose.
 
#20
"Qualified aeroplane and helicopter pilots, as well as specialist aircrew, can earn up to an extra £40 a day on top of their salaries even if their job does not involve flying.
Under the generous allowances scheme pilots are still paid the full "flying pay" for three years once they have left a "flying job".
The rate of specialist pay reduces to 75 per cent in the fourth year, 50 per cent in the fifth, 25 per cent in the sixth and ceases in the seventh. It is the same principle for all other recipients of specialist pay in all services.
It is understood that the Chancellor, George Osborne was said to be "staggered" to learn that extra pay annually worth millions of pounds was paid to pilots who do not fly and submariners who no longer serve at sea."



Brilliant news, the amount of aircrew types who havent flown for years is staggering, huge savings to be had.

As AAC Aviation Crewmen, if you arnt in a flying PID, you dont get flying pay - quite right too.
 

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