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Alleged SAS War Crimes Report

Ben Robert-Smith never rose beyond corporal.

Perhaps you missed the subtlety of what I posted:

....about a culture of "blooding" the newly badged in certain sections. If you want to cover things up, make people complicit. My guilt becomes your guilt. For a small and tight cadre with "big personalities", he claims it was SOP, accompanied by a sinister threat for non-compliance.

There's no question that officers bear responsibility, it's in their job description. However, "bearing responsibility" and "being responsible" for the events are two very different things. To the best of my knowledge, no officers are among those alleged to have committed war crimes.

As for the rest of your post, I disagree with a good deal of what you wrote.
 
Chris Masters in his book ; 'No Front Line' states :

By 2010, a low-pressure system of rumour about Special Forces behaving badly in Afghanstan swept Defence precincts in Camberra, Sydney and Perth. Revelations had surfaced during post deployment interviews with psychologists. The Australian Defence Force Investigative Service (ADFIS) advanced suspicion about ongoing incidents of deaths in custody. Special Operations Task Group (SOTG) members were noticeably more guarded when queried. Friends of friends overheard gossip at parties of Afghan males without weapons found dead in fields - and far worse.

Ahead of the squall of prospective war crimes was a general alert about Special Forces acting as a law unto itself. Episodes of heavy drinking, drug taking, punch-ups, domestic violence, insubordination and undermining of senior officers were not so much suspected as known at command level. It was hard not to know. Senior officers had sometimes joined the boys for a drink.

The issue was coming into unavoidable focus when Major General Jeff Sengelman was appointed Special Operations Commander in December 2014. He bit the bullet confronting concerns either neglected or, to this point, regarded as too difficult due to operational momentum.

One incident from 7 December 2013 had triggered a chain of enquires. A barbecue in Kabul involving SASR members on a protective security detail, Australian Secret Intelligence Service (ASIS) operators and others saw perhaps a bit too much alcohol consumed. A weapon was said to have been waved in front of a female ASIS officer. The episode was investigated, with one noted fallout from the subsequent report.

In mid 2015 Major General Sengelman invited SASR members to write letters detaiing instances of any unacceptable or unprofessional behaviour on operations. There was an undertaking of mutual trust with a close hold kept on the letters.

In addition, a series of studies to help understand perceptions of Special Forces and assist command decisions was requested. One was a Special Operations Interaction and Cultural Study by sociologist, Dr Samantha Crompvoets. Although an outsider, Crompvoets managed to get operators talking - about unacceptable behaviour morphing into war crimes; of inhumane treatment of prisoners, competition killing and cover up. She found a blight of anger, frustration and disillusionment encompassing disrespect for officers, in contrast to veneration of experienced non-commissioned officers.


So, no I don't think this is down to a SNCO mafia as the officers didn't stay long in a SASR. Officers come and go in any unit in any army as do SNCO's. Each Troop would have an experienced Captain in command as opposed to a wet behind the ears subbie and each squadron would be commanded by an experienced Major who would have commanded a Troop in SASR previously. In addition there would be an SSM who is the interface between the officers and men and whose job it is to grip any SNCO's and men getting out of line. SASR also has late entry officers commissioned from the ranks. Ben Robert-Smith never rose beyond corporal.

The fault clearly lies with the officers for not doing their job properly from the Chief of Army, SOCAUST, CO SASR to the Squadron Commander and ADFIS for not get to grips with the problem at the time.

Those poor old Sgts - they can pass Selection and Patrol Cdr's course, but obviously lack the agency to know right from wrong, and need a grown up to "grip them".

Looks like the 'The Sgts' Mess runs the Regiment' is bollocks, and actually it's just a crèche.
 

Caecilius

LE
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Each Troop would have an experienced Captain in command as opposed to a wet behind the ears subbie and each squadron would be commanded by an experienced Major who would have commanded a Troop in SASR previously.

This isn't really true. Troop commanders come in with no SF experience while the troop SSgt/WO will have at least a decade under his belt. This is made worse in SASR because the squadrons currently do a three year rotation while the officers generally get a command slot for two years - they don't even do a full cycle with the team (although I believe this was different at the time of the alleged war crimes). Add to that a culture of everyone being on first name terms, which reduces the officer-OR rank divide, and it's hard for junior officers to exert authority.

That's not to say that they aren't ultimately responsible for what happens under their watch, but there are cultural issues that make it easier for things like this to happen than in regular units.
 
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As for the rest of your post, I disagree with a good deal of what you wrote.
If you had read what I wrote you would have seen that the majority of it was written by Chris Masters.The officers have had from 2010 to get to grips with this. Its what they are paid their big salaries for. But they have utterly failed to do this. Perhaps there should be a few Court martials for dereliction of duty? But I doubt that will happen. Lets just sacrifice the small fry and the officer class close ranks.
 
Those poor old Sgts - they can pass Selection and Patrol Cdr's course, but obviously lack the agency to know right from wrong, and need a grown up to "grip them".

Looks like the 'The Sgts' Mess runs the Regiment' is bollocks, and actually it's just a crèche.
Oh those poor officers, it was the nasty Sgt's Mess mafia that made us do it.

Where is @stacker1 when you need him.
 
If you believe this is fake new, why don't you report it to the Australian Communications and Media Authority?

I've got better things to do with my time.

I would also say this - This was a war. The Taliban weren't following any rules. If some squaddie saw another squaddie being blown to pieces and then scraped into a bin bag - and wanted some revenge.....well I wouldn't blame them if they felt the need to slot the enemy when they got the chance. Also If I saw that happen - I certainly wouldn't bubble them for taking revenge.
Still nothing like that happened - as it's all fake news/media. However if it came to light that someone, somewhere did something against the one sided rules - so be it, the only good enemy is a dead enemy,
 
Oh those poor officers, it was the nasty Sgt's Mess mafia that made us do it.

Where is @stacker1 when you need him.

I'm wondering if Bob the big time businessman is going to chip in. Generally everything that goes wrong in a regiment is the fault of WOs according to him.

While I do belive that SF SNCOs should have stood up and done something if needed. I question what is the point of having officers if they are never held responsible when they are supposed to be in charge.
 
While I do belive that SF SNCOs should have stood up and done something if needed. I question what is the point of having officers if they are never held responsible when they are supposed to be in charge.
There we go. Stacker has summed up the whole affair in two lines.
 
Who Cares Who Wins?
I care that the British/Aussies/USA and our Allies win - for everyone else - I don't give a fook if they lose. I especially don't give a fook if some taliban retard gets slotted. If you play with bombs and guns - don't be surprised if you get killed by one of them.

As for this topic and the fake news story -
 
I've got better things to do with my time.

I would also say this - This was a war. The Taliban weren't following any rules. If some squaddie saw another squaddie being blown to pieces and then scraped into a bin bag - and wanted some revenge.....well I wouldn't blame them if they felt the need to slot the enemy when they got the chance. Also If I saw that happen - I certainly wouldn't bubble them for taking revenge.
Still nothing like that happened - as it's all fake news/media. However if it came to light that someone, somewhere did something against the one sided rules - so be it, the only good enemy is a dead enemy,
So you are saying it happened but it's fake news? I'm confused. Or has the Inquiry and the report not occurred??

But your account of a comrade who was killed and colleagues exacting evenge in a fit of rage isn't what happened. There appears to have been a deeply embedded culture of deliberately violent and deliberately unlawful behaviour.

This isn't about the Taliban...or, indeed, Afghan farmers caught up in this sh!tstorm. In your parallel universe the adult male catholic population if NI should have been killed...

And before you ask, I have served in Afghan and elsewhere...
 
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So you are saying it happened but it's fake news? I'm confused.
Where did I say that? I'm sure you're confused, you seem like it's pretty easy to confuse you.
 
Did the Inquiry not take place? If it did (which it has) what's fake about it?
Anyone can write and make up an inquiry and make it sound how they want by inserting loaded words and phrases - this is a well known tactic from the left and the main stream lefty media. All news from the MSM is not to be trusted as they are a bunch of lying twats. Any 'inquiry' they write is not to be trusted. The only people that know what happened are the people that were there on the day/place/exact time it happened. Some left leaning reporter writing about something 10-15 years after something 'supposedly' happened, is just trying to make a non story into a story so they can sell a newspaper or fill up an online column.
Anyone with a degree of common sense can see this bullshit for what it is - nothing but a hack job trying to smear someone.

Also I wish you would post all the links for apologies from the MSM when they reported on other such stories - which were proven to be false...you seem to have time on your hands, so spend them doing that.
 
Anyone can write and make up an inquiry and make it sound how they want by inserting loaded words and phrases - this is a well known tactic from the left and the main stream lefty media. All news from the MSM is not to be trusted as they are a bunch of lying twats. Any 'inquiry' they write is not to be trusted. The only people that know what happened are the people that were there on the day/place/exact time it happened. Some left leaning reporter writing about something 10-15 years after something 'supposedly' happened, is just trying to make a non story into a story so they can sell a newspaper or fill up an online column.
Anyone with a degree of common sense can see this bullshit for what it is - nothing but a hack job trying to smear someone.

Also I wish you would post all the links for apologies from the MSM when they reported on other such stories - which were proven to be false...you seem to have time on your hands, so spend them doing that.
Am I missing something here? Was this Inquiry set up by the media?
 
Anyone can write and make up an inquiry and make it sound how they want by inserting loaded words and phrases - this is a well known tactic from the left and the main stream lefty media. All news from the MSM is not to be trusted as they are a bunch of lying twats. Any 'inquiry' they write is not to be trusted. The only people that know what happened are the people that were there on the day/place/exact time it happened. Some left leaning reporter writing about something 10-15 years after something 'supposedly' happened, is just trying to make a non story into a story so they can sell a newspaper or fill up an online column.
Anyone with a degree of common sense can see this bullshit for what it is - nothing but a hack job trying to smear someone.

Also I wish you would post all the links for apologies from the MSM when they reported on other such stories - which were proven to be false...you seem to have time on your hands, so spend them doing that.
@mrdude Do you seriously regard the Murdoch Media Empire as left wing? Are you categorically stating that this Inquiry was made up by the media? (You do, actually, in your opening sentences)
 

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