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Alleged SAS War Crimes Report

Australian war crime allegations defence chief says commanders will be held responsible.

Campbell appears to be rowing for the shore a bit. Extracts from the article:


The Australian defence force chief, General Angus Campbell, says he accepts officers and more senior commanders bear some of the responsibility for the handling of alleged war crimes against special forces in Afghanistan.

Former and serving special forces soldiers have told Guardian Australia they are frustrated at the failure of the landmark Brereton report to sanction commanders at the highest level,

Campbell responded to the criticism of a lack of accountability higher up the chain during an interview with the ABC’s Insiders program on Sunday.

He was asked about the report’s finding that commanders “indirectly contributed to the criminal behaviour” by “sanitising or embellishing reporting to avoid attracting questions”.

Campbell said the report highlighted “that there are officers in command roles in the special operations task group and indeed in higher appointments who had a responsibility to deal with issues and to completely and openly report, and he finds fault there”.

“I accept that,” Campbell said.

Campbell also reflected, briefly, on his own role as commander in the Middle East in 2011. He said he, ultimately, would be held to account “to make sure that this report is dealt with thoroughly” but also for his own performance in the Middle East.


Once the Brereton report started the ADF and Australian government should have clamped down on any leaks and any newspaper articles. Findlay and Campbell should have made no comment until the report was released.

When the report was released Campbell should have said that there is credible information of serious allegations of war crimes which will be fully investigated by the AFP and if there is evidence to substansiate the allegations the cases will go for trial in a criminal court.

At the conclusion of those trials, if the allegation's are proved beyond reasonable doubt he could then talk about disbanding squadrons in disgrace, removing unit citations, internal reviews etc.

At least then he, Findlay and the others wouldn't come across as virtue signalling hypocrites.
 
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Once the Brereton report started the ADF and Australian government should have clamped down on any leaks and any newspaper articles. Findlay and Campbell should have made no comment until the report was released.

The Inquiry has provided no information, via "leak" or otherwise to the media. You'll find Brereton's very robust and detailed rebuttal to such suggestions, should you care to look for it.

You also fail to recognise that it was "leaks" that ultimately gave rise to the Inquiry.

Indeed, the only Afghanistan veteran currently facing criminal charges in relation to these events is one Maj. McBride, an ADF lawyer, attached to SASR, who raised grave concerns about potential war crimes up the CoC, only to be stiffly ignored. He then, allegedly, leaked information to the ABC, which was published. That directly gave rise to the police raid on ABC offices.

As for "clamping down on newspaper articles", that is achieved via supression orders.....and you'll find, per the BRS defamation case, that the ADF is "all over it".

Lastly, the fact that BRS is personally under investigation by the Federal Police was not "leaked", by the ADF or anybody else, and subsequently published by a newspaper. Rather, that specific fact was revealed in the Federal Court during pre-trial processes of a defamation action instigated by one BRS. The judge has ruled that BRS must disclose any an all material related to his participation in the Inquiry.
 
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Didn't you previously claim that this whole farrago was invented by the media? It hasn't been, has it?
The MSM are know liars, and you know it as well as 99.9% of the population.

The trouble with liars though is that even when they appear to be telling the truth, nobody believes them as they lie too often to be regarded as a credible source. MSM are just not delivering news anymore - just biased opinion pieces and general bullshit is all you read.
 
Given the very limited engagement in Afghanistan vs WWII one has to wonder about the modern day sensitivies vs WWII and the number of Allied war crimes.
Yep, and there were plenty axis war crimes - as was the norm back in that time. When an enemy fights with no rules and you stick to the rules - you are gonna get killed and fooked over big style. If we didn't need to play by some crappy rule book and were allowed to go all out with no rules - the Afghan/Iraq wars would only have been weeks - not years!
The trouble with people and politicians today is that they are too soft.
 
The Inquiry has provided no information, via "leak" or otherwise to the media. You'll find Brereton's very robust and detailed rebuttal to such suggestions, should you care to look for it.

You also fail to recognise that it was "leaks" that ultimately gave rise to the Inquiry.

Indeed, the only Afghanistan veteran currently facing criminal charges in relation to these events is one Maj. McBride, an ADF lawyer, attached to SASR, who raised grave concerns about war crimes up the CoC, only to be stiffly ignored. He then, allegedly, leaked information to the ABC, which was published. That directely gave rise to the police raid on ABC offices.

As for "clamping down on newspaper articles", that is achieved via supression orders.....and you'll find, per the BRS defamation case, that the ADF is "all over it".
If anything, the McBride story rather demonstrates the complicity of the chain of command in all of this.

Nick Xenophon’s open letter to Campbell from The Age last week illustrates how McBride has been hung out to dry. At least he’s well represented and got friends in high places, Xenophon being a former Senator.


This has a long way to run, but one would expect the McBride trial to be highly embarrassing for a number of senior officers now that Brereton is published.

Incidentally, David McBride is a former Blues and Royals officer who tried for Selection in the UK before emigrating and doing his law degree.
 
The MSM are know liars, and you know it as well as 99.9% of the population.

The trouble with liars though is that even when they appear to be telling the truth, nobody believes them as they lie too often to be regarded as a credible source. MSM are just not delivering news anymore - just biased opinion pieces and general bullshit is all you read.
So the media didn't make up this story, did they?
 
This has a long way to run, but one would expect the McBride trial to be highly embarrassing for a number of senior officers now that Brereton is published.

I was thinking the same this morning. The discovery process, and what it might reveal, tends to make me think the charges will be dropped (per the charges against the journalist to whom he allegedly leaked).
 
Yep, and there were plenty axis war crimes - as was the norm back in that time. When an enemy fights with no rules and you stick to the rules - you are gonna get killed and fooked over big style. If we didn't need to play by some crappy rule book and were allowed to go all out with no rules - the Afghan/Iraq wars would only have been weeks - not years!
The trouble with people and politicians today is that they are too soft.
Would you suggest that IHL (LOAC) should be removed from the Statute Books? And with that ROE? How about removing the accountability of Command? After all, how could a commander be held accountable for the actions of his troops if there are no rules on the battlefield?
 
I was thinking the same this morning. The discovery process, and what it might reveal, tends to make me think the charges will be dropped (per the charges against the journalist to whom he allegedly leaked).
My only knowledge of the McBride story is from the papers. I’m not sure the motive for his leaks was to expose war crimes; in fact, more the opposite. He was trying to prove that the CoC was exposing SF soldiers to potential allegations of murderer because the ROE were too “soft”. In so doing, he actually exposed misdemeanours.


The McBride story doesn’t entirely stack up to me. As a lawyer, he would have had access to senior officers, who would surely have sought his council? If he was flying conspiracy theory kites, would they trust his advice? I would have thought he have been fired pretty quickly?
 
You are presuming they had ears to listen which, it would appear, they didn't.
In my experience of Brit HQs on ops, the legal staff officer is in the commander’s inner circle. If McBride was off piste and his advice was not trusted, he should have been fired. If he was being ignored because ears were deaf, then it suggests that the warrior culture that Brereton and Crompvoets both identified stretches rather higher than patrol commander level.

Either way, McBride’s case will no doubt expose and embarrass.
 
My only knowledge of the McBride story is from the papers. I’m not sure the motive for his leaks was to expose war crimes; in fact, more the opposite. He was trying to prove that the CoC was exposing SF soldiers to potential allegations of murderer because the ROE were too “soft”. In so doing, he actually exposed misdemeanours.


The McBride story doesn’t entirely stack up to me. As a lawyer, he would have had access to senior officers, who would surely have sought his council? If he was flying conspiracy theory kites, would they trust his advice? I would have thought he have been fired pretty quickly?
He certainly seems to be a bit of a character, always searching for more excitement. If the trial does go ahead, I'd expect that his defence will have a few smoking guns ready (pun intended).
 
In my experience of Brit HQs on ops, the legal staff officer is in the commander’s inner circle. If McBride was off piste and his advice was not trusted, he should have been fired. If he was being ignored because ears were deaf, then it suggests that the warrior culture that Brereton and Crompvoets both identified stretches rather higher than patrol commander level.

Either way, McBride’s case will no doubt expose and embarrass.
That has been my experience in Op HQs as well. Neither the LEGAD nor POLAD's advice is taken lightly, and in the UK on Air Ops,the LEGAD is part of the 'kill chain' in that if he or she is not consulted, the proposed action cannot take place.
 
That has been my experience in Op HQs as well. Neither the LEGAD nor POLAD's advice is taken lightly, and in the UK on Air Ops,the LEGAD is part of the 'kill chain' in that if he or she is not consulted, the proposed action cannot take place.
Only in pre-planned deliberate targeting with a full Targeting Board and bags of time.

Not during Accelerated Targeting or Combat Engagement.
 
Only in pre-planned deliberate targeting with a full Targeting Board and bags of time.

Not during Accelerated Targeting or Combat Engagement.
Yes, but in both cases LEGAD would be consulted after action. Frankly it beggars belief that a command legal advisor would be marginalised on the way that McBride appears to have been.
 
So the media didn't make up this story, did they?
They weren't there - so yes they made it up. Unless it comes from the soldiers themselves and it's on the record exactly - then it's just a journo's opinion (and usually a bullshit biased one at that).
 
Yep, and there were plenty axis war crimes - as was the norm back in that time. When an enemy fights with no rules and you stick to the rules - you are gonna get killed and fooked over big style.
No, they weren't the norm. Not until Axis forces demonstrated that it was top-down policy.

Nazi Germany had spent a decade of propaganda, bringing up its youth to believe that they were the Master Race, that their opponents were subhuman or evil, and that it was necessary to "clean" the world to remove the threat. They made a specialty of the murder of civilians in Eastern Europe, and was none too unhappy about translating that behaviour to Western Europe. They did this to PoWs and civilians from the very start of the war (Le Paradis, Wormhoudt), and before (see: Guernica), right to the very end (death marches of PWs). Unsurprisingly, the Eastern Front quickly became "no quarter asked, nor none given".

What's depressing is the number of alt-right types in the USA who now believe that the Germans did nothing wrong, they were forced into a war by the nasty aggressive British and French, and look! The Soviets were beastly! CoMMIe sOciaLIST AnTIfA BlM!!! Or is it the other way around? "I rather admire black uniforms and swastikas, and enjoy some casual racism, but I don't want to think I'm a bad person, so the Nazis must have been right, so I'd better make up some reasons that I can contradict all the evidence and history books"?

If we didn't need to play by some crappy rule book and were allowed to go all out with no rules - the Afghan/Iraq wars would only have been weeks - not years!
The trouble with people and politicians today is that they are too soft.
That's the informed opinion of a US teenager who has never served a day in uniform?
 
They weren't there - so yes they made it up. Unless it comes from the soldiers themselves and it's on the record exactly - then it's just a journo's opinion (and usually a bullshit biased one at that).
You seem determined to post in as many threads as you can, without even bothering to read the relevant info before spouting nonsense.

The allegations came directly from soldiers who witnessed these events. But of course you knew that didn't you...
 
That's the informed opinion of a US teenager who has never served a day in uniform?
Who's a US teenager? I was in the British Army and spend many days in uniform & did 9 op tours. I did tours in Bosnia/Kosovo/Iraq/Afghanistan/Belize.....not to mention all the far flung shitholes I have been to working as a civvie, such as Sudan and some places in the middle east. I know all about wars dude - more than you will ever know.
 

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