Army Rumour Service

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Alleged SAS War Crimes Report

It's a shame you choose such an asinine approach to a very serious matter.

Perhaps, once you've read the official report, you'll do the decent thing and apologise for your utter stupidity. Something tells me you won't, becuase you are clearly a cnut.
I wouldn't waste my time - or electricity reading anything the MSM has got to say anymore. They are proven liars, can't be trusted and always have a left wing agenda.
The MSM have only themselves to blame that nobody takes them seriously anymore. If you know the story of 'The boy who cried wolf' - that's how I and many others view the MSM. If you constantly and continually tell lies - nobody is going to know or pay any attention, even if you have something truthful to say.
In my experience - MSM are not to be trusted, and insinuating someone is a 'Cnut' & other names, because they don't tow the line you're attached to is a common tactic of the left. Next you'll be coming out with phrases such as "Nazi" and "Extreme right wing". Have a nice day - and I don't care what you have to say, so don't bother replying.

Also - the thread title should start with this:
WARNING,FAKE NEWS STORY BY FAKE BIASED MEDIA, TREAT AS A CONSPIRACY THEORY - IT'S ALL LIES!!!
 
Last edited:
Friday night now making it to Saturday lunch.
 
I wouldn't waste my time - or electricity reading anything the MSM has got to say anymore. They are proven liars, can't be trusted and always have a left wing agenda.
The MSM have only themselves to blame that nobody takes them seriously anymore. If you know the story of 'The boy who cried wolf' - that's how I and many others view the MSM. If you constantly and continually tell lies - nobody is going to know or pay any attention, even if you have something truthful to say.
In my experience - MSM are not to be trusted, and insinuating someone is a 'Cnut' & other names, because they don't tow the line you're attached to is a common tactic of the left. Next you'll be coming out with phrases such as "Nazi" and "Extreme right wing". Have a nice day - and I don't care what you have to say, so don't bother replying.

Also - the thread title should start with this:
WARNING,FAKE NEWS STORY BY FAKE BIASED MEDIA, TREAT AS A CONSPIRACY THEORY - IT'S ALL LIES!!!
"Toe the line" you turps guzzing moonbat.
 
Helmet cam footage has been released of an SASR operator apparently executing an Afghan teenager.

Either way, the point of the report isn't to secure individual convictions. It's to highlight a broken culture that needs to be changed.
Its depends on whether that culture is widespread or just a few people who like killing a bit to much.
Almost every conflict ever has had some very dubious actions some widespread such as the those of the SS to a few bellends such as in Iraq.
 

Mattb

LE
Never believe anything you read in the main stream media - unless you have first hand experience because you were there in person when x or y happened. Everything else is either speculation, lies, an opinion or just plain bullshit.
The MSM are nothing but biased liars and are always pushing an agenda (which seems to be a lefty agenda nowadays). The age Australia is a High left wing propaganda media organisation.

I like how you link to a site which:
(a) Rates the source you're criticising as "high" for factual reporting
(b) Rates the source that you're criticising as less biased and more factual than your beloved Fox News

 

CRmeansCeilingReached

ADC
Moderator
I wouldn't waste my time - or electricity reading anything the MSM has got to say anymore. They are proven liars, can't be trusted and always have a left wing agenda.

That will come as a bit of a shock to the Daily Mail, Daily Telegraph, The Times, Daily Express etc :D
 

Tongnye

Clanker
There is a saying that those who ignore the lessons of history are bound to repeat them. When I read the above linked media report and previously having read the allegations reported on the ABC web site (still there for anyone who cares to read them) which kicked off the whole investigation I am strongly reminded of Ken Connors book, "Ghost Force" where he wrote about the problems infecting the British SAS Regiment due to its structure and development.

Special forces must be one of the very few units where official command and real command can be separated, at least tactically and if rigorous care is not taken, administratively. Where power in the unit lies with the NCOs' as there is no long-term posting for officers there is the danger that things can slide southwards.

It is also well known that the constant rotation of forces into a conflict can lead to problems with observing the rules of engagement. Australian special forces were used extensively in Afghanistan and Iraq. These units are not large and by necessity were used in constant rotation. If a careful watch was not placed on their performance and adherence to the rules of engagement then these problems will occur.

@mrdude you may question the messenger but there is very strong evidence that the SASR committed war crimes. There is also strong dissatisfaction in the Australian Army over the sidelining of the infantry in Afghanistan to favour special forces in combat operations that were within the competence of infantry units. What comments have been made so far about the report would seem to suggest that it has looked at not only the incidents that gave rise to the investigation but the response from higher up the chain of command. My own belief is that the report should also look at what was known politically because some of the pressure to use special forces constantly, I believe, has arisen there.
The Constant rotation ,all mostly volonteers influenced by the extra 30000$ bounty plus danger money for a 6month tour in afghanistan,, my home helps son is in the regt. he did 3 tours in 24 months to purchase his house, here in laidley
 
The Constant rotation ,all mostly volonteers influenced by the extra 30000$ bounty plus danger money for a 6month tour in afghanistan,, my home helps son is in the regt. he did 3 tours in 24 months to purchase his house, here in laidley
I thought they did 4 month tours according to Mark Donaldson in his book 'The Crossroad'.
 
Reports up through the CoC came from juniors through to seniors, all with the same information about the same individual(s) and referring to the same operations.
So why didn't those seniors and the CoC do something when they were first aware about it between 7 and 14 years ago. Isn't that their job and what they get paid for? I am prepared to be suprised.
 
So why didn't those seniors and the CoC do something when they were first aware about it between 7 and 14 years ago. Isn't that their job and what they get paid for? I am prepared to be suprised.

That's a matter for the inquiry. As you know, however, the CoC in SF is somewhat different to the regular green army, with officers on short postings and SNCOs as permanent fixtures. Did battlefield leadership and ethos come from the officers or SNCOs? I think you already know the answer.

Long before any of these allegations became public, a close friend and former colleague talked about a culture of "blooding" the newly badged in certain sections. If you want to cover things up, make people complicit. My guilt becomes your guilt. For a small and tight cadre with big "personalities", he claims it was SOP, accompanied by a sinister threat for non-compliance.
 
Last edited:
So why didn't those seniors and the CoC do something when they were first aware about it between 7 and 14 years ago. Isn't that their job and what they get paid for? I am prepared to be suprised.

I think it will end up reflecting badly on leadership at all levels, from HQSO to patrol. That said, this has only come to light because of members of SASR/Cdo.
 
I think it will end up reflecting badly on leadership at all levels, from HQSO to patrol. That said, this has only come to light because of members of SASR/Cdo.

I agree but I hope (although I am not going to hold my breath) is that it looks at what was known beyond HQSO and reaching into the political levels.
 
I agree but I hope (although I am not going to hold my breath) is that it looks at what was known beyond HQSO and reaching into the political levels.

Agree completely. Needless to say the likelihood of any action will reduce as altitude is achieved.
 
Chris Masters in his book ; 'No Front Line' states :

By 2010, a low-pressure system of rumour about Special Forces behaving badly in Afghanstan swept Defence precincts in Camberra, Sydney and Perth. Revelations had surfaced during post deployment interviews with psychologists. The Australian Defence Force Investigative Service (ADFIS) advanced suspicion about ongoing incidents of deaths in custody. Special Operations Task Group (SOTG) members were noticeably more guarded when queried. Friends of friends overheard gossip at parties of Afghan males without weapons found dead in fields - and far worse.

Ahead of the squall of prospective war crimes was a general alert about Special Forces acting as a law unto itself. Episodes of heavy drinking, drug taking, punch-ups, domestic violence, insubordination and undermining of senior officers were not so much suspected as known at command level. It was hard not to know. Senior officers had sometimes joined the boys for a drink.

The issue was coming into unavoidable focus when Major General Jeff Sengelman was appointed Special Operations Commander in December 2014. He bit the bullet confronting concerns either neglected or, to this point, regarded as too difficult due to operational momentum.

One incident from 7 December 2013 had triggered a chain of enquires. A barbecue in Kabul involving SASR members on a protective security detail, Australian Secret Intelligence Service (ASIS) operators and others saw perhaps a bit too much alcohol consumed. A weapon was said to have been waved in front of a female ASIS officer. The episode was investigated, with one noted fallout from the subsequent report.

In mid 2015 Major General Sengelman invited SASR members to write letters detaiing instances of any unacceptable or unprofessional behaviour on operations. There was an undertaking of mutual trust with a close hold kept on the letters.

In addition, a series of studies to help understand perceptions of Special Forces and assist command decisions was requested. One was a Special Operations Interaction and Cultural Study by sociologist, Dr Samantha Crompvoets. Although an outsider, Crompvoets managed to get operators talking - about unacceptable behaviour morphing into war crimes; of inhumane treatment of prisoners, competition killing and cover up. She found a blight of anger, frustration and disillusionment encompassing disrespect for officers, in contrast to veneration of experienced non-commissioned officers.


So, no I don't think this is down to a SNCO mafia as the officers didn't stay long in a SASR. Officers come and go in any unit in any army as do SNCO's. Each Troop would have an experienced Captain in command as opposed to a wet behind the ears subbie and each squadron would be commanded by an experienced Major who would have commanded a Troop in SASR previously. In addition there would be an SSM who is the interface between the officers and men and whose job it is to grip any SNCO's and men getting out of line. SASR also has late entry officers commissioned from the ranks. Ben Robert-Smith never rose beyond corporal.

The fault clearly lies with the officers for not doing their job properly from the Chief of Army, SOCAUST, CO SASR to the Squadron Commander and ADFIS for not get to grips with the problem at the time.
 
Chris Masters in his book ; 'No Front Line' states :

By 2010, a low-pressure system of rumour about Special Forces behaving badly in Afghanstan swept Defence precincts in Camberra, Sydney and Perth. Revelations had surfaced during post deployment interviews with psychologists. The Australian Defence Force Investigative Service (ADFIS) advanced suspicion about ongoing incidents of deaths in custody. Special Operations Task Group (SOTG) members were noticeably more guarded when queried. Friends of friends overheard gossip at parties of Afghan males without weapons found dead in fields - and far worse.

Ahead of the squall of prospective war crimes was a general alert about Special Forces acting as a law unto itself. Episodes of heavy drinking, drug taking, punch-ups, domestic violence, insubordination and undermining of senior officers were not so much suspected as known at command level. It was hard not to know. Senior officers had sometimes joined the boys for a drink.

The issue was coming into unavoidable focus when Major General Jeff Sengelman was appointed Special Operations Commander in December 2014. He bit the bullet confronting concerns either neglected or, to this point, regarded as too difficult due to operational momentum.

One incident from 7 December 2013 had triggered a chain of enquires. A barbecue in Kabul involving SASR members on a protective security detail, Australian Secret Intelligence Service (ASIS) operators and others saw perhaps a bit too much alcohol consumed. A weapon was said to have been waved in front of a female ASIS officer. The episode was investigated, with one noted fallout from the subsequent report.

In mid 2015 Major General Sengelman invited SASR members to write letters detaiing instances of any unacceptable or unprofessional behaviour on operations. There was an undertaking of mutual trust with a close hold kept on the letters.

In addition, a series of studies to help understand perceptions of Special Forces and assist command decisions was requested. One was a Special Operations Interaction and Cultural Study by sociologist, Dr Samantha Crompvoets. Although an outsider, Crompvoets managed to get operators talking - about unacceptable behaviour morphing into war crimes; of inhumane treatment of prisoners, competition killing and cover up. She found a blight of anger, frustration and disillusionment encompassing disrespect for officers, in contrast to veneration of experienced non-commissioned officers.


So, no I don't think this is down to a SNCO mafia as the officers didn't stay long in a SASR. Officers come and go in any unit in any army as do SNCO's. Each Troop would have an experienced Captain in command as opposed to a wet behind the ears subbie and each squadron would be commanded by an experienced Major who would have commanded a Troop in SASR previously. In addition there would be an SSM who is the interface between the officers and men and whose job it is to grip any SNCO's and men getting out of line. SASR also has late entry officers commissioned from the ranks. Ben Robert-Smith never rose beyond corporal.

The fault clearly lies with the officers for not doing their job properly from the Chief of Army, SOCAUST, CO SASR to the Squadron Commander and ADFIS for not get to grips with the problem at the time.

Or as a boss of mine said to me "bad news doesn't get better with age".
 
Never believe anything you read in the main stream media - unless you have first hand experience because you were there in person when x or y happened. Everything else is either speculation, lies, an opinion or just plain bullshit.
The MSM are nothing but biased liars and are always pushing an agenda (which seems to be a lefty agenda nowadays). The age Australia is a High left wing propaganda media organisation.

So shoot the (unarmed) messenger? How apt.
 
Last edited:
Maybe you should read this,


Pretty much all of the claims are baseless and bullshit - just some civvies trying to get free money - and left wing media trying to make a buck with some bullshit claims. These 'stories' you are reading were not written by anyone that was in Iraq/Afghanistan. They are written by weirdo journo's that don't have a clue about anything other than soy latte's and the latest corduroy menswear.
So what has the right-wing media had to say about this whole affair?
 
I wouldn't waste my time - or electricity reading anything the MSM has got to say anymore. They are proven liars, can't be trusted and always have a left wing agenda.
The MSM have only themselves to blame that nobody takes them seriously anymore. If you know the story of 'The boy who cried wolf' - that's how I and many others view the MSM. If you constantly and continually tell lies - nobody is going to know or pay any attention, even if you have something truthful to say.
In my experience - MSM are not to be trusted, and insinuating someone is a 'Cnut' & other names, because they don't tow the line you're attached to is a common tactic of the left. Next you'll be coming out with phrases such as "Nazi" and "Extreme right wing". Have a nice day - and I don't care what you have to say, so don't bother replying.

Also - the thread title should start with this:
WARNING,FAKE NEWS STORY BY FAKE BIASED MEDIA, TREAT AS A CONSPIRACY THEORY - IT'S ALL LIES!!!
If you believe this is fake new, why don't you report it to the Australian Communications and Media Authority?
To make it easier, here's the link:


Do you often wonder why you're the only one who sees this libtard woke leftwaffe Bolshevik Broadcasting Corporation conspiracy?
 

New Posts

Latest Threads

Top