All Roles Now Open To Females

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Scene setting, hence the "if".

Sexual equality doesn't make as good a story as sexual inequality. Your "gays being banned" assertion doesn't mean anything.
But we are highly likely to never get 50% females in the Army so your "if" means nothing.
How many media stories can you produce that said the lack of females in the infantry was outrageous?
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
Did you receive special training to be so stupid or is it just a consequence of your chromosome count?
Why is it my fault if you can't sustain an argument and choose to post vacuous shoite which can be effortlessly shot down?

Step back from the keyboard for a while. You aren't really equipped for this discussion and you're consequently over-emotional and generally posting like Graculus - which isn't a good thing.
 

Q_Man

Old-Salt
Still a long way from 1960 when the only black lad in my dad's Pars Reg intake was issued boots a size too small to get rid of him.
Note to self, use the quote button. Very odd post when read out of context. Mia culpa.
 
Why is it my fault if you can't sustain an argument and choose to post vacuous shoite which can be effortlessly shot down?

Step back from the keyboard for a while. You aren't really equipped for this discussion and you're consequently over-emotional and generally posting like Graculus - which isn't a good thing.
You don't actually realise how stupid you sound every time you post do you?

Cast your eyes back over this thread and see the unsubstantiated and unsupported assertions you make with no basis in fact and without any supporting evidence whatsoever. The article I posted was a balanced piece written by someone it seems is ex RM. You on the other hand were what? TA RAOC?
 

Kefi

Old-Salt
Here's a balanced article which will no doubt drive the fragile male egos on this thread to apoplexy :)

Comment: Why Is There Only One Woman Training To Become A Royal Marine?

All I can add is it is really great that the Royal Armoured Corps are leading the way in integrating women into their GCC units, but for balance it must be said that their entry standards are both lower and easier than the Cdo Course or the CIC.
What is it with male ego argument ?
The vast majority of us are just making the valid points that need making.

Lowering standards
Sexual discrimination (against men)
Cohesion effects
And the long term effects regarding women in the GCC that all the above will include.

From a serving RM friend, the only woman curently at Lympstone is in Hunter troop broken. Of the 3 that passed AACC one was given extra time & helped through, seems the other two cracked it fair & square, fair play to them.
 
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Caecilius

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
The article I posted was a balanced piece written by someone it seems is ex RM.
And yet it cites as its sole counterargument to the cohesion issue, the idea that Royal Navy Ships haven't had any cohesion problems. As @FORMER_FYRDMAN's linked article shows, this is obviously untrue. Just because an article is 'balanced', that doesn't mean it's well argued.

Cast your eyes back over this thread and see the unsubstantiated and unsupported assertions you make with no basis in fact and without any supporting evidence whatsoever.
Despite your claims, @FORMER_FYRDMAN has evidence to support his argument and has posted it in a message that seems to have driven you to apoplexy. Where's your evidence? All I'm seeing is the same brand of furious insults that the ironically named @beardyProf seems to favour in place of reasoned argument.
 

Truly there are none so blind...
Male-only units have just as much of a problem - no women required. There are infantry Regiments losing 40 soldiers a year to failed drugs tests - at a battalion level, the Black Watch lost 20 last year.

 

Caecilius

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Male-only units have just as much of a problem - no women required. There are infantry Regiments losing 40 soldiers a year to failed drugs tests - at a battalion level, the Black Watch lost 20 last year.

Significantly fewer issues with people having sex with others in their CoC though...
 
And yet it cites as its sole counterargument to the cohesion issue, the idea that Royal Navy Ships haven't had any cohesion problems. As @FORMER_FYRDMAN's linked article shows, this is obviously untrue. Just because an article is 'balanced', that doesn't mean it's well argued.



Despite your claims, @FORMER_FYRDMAN has evidence to support his argument and has posted it in a message that seems to have driven you to apoplexy. Where's your evidence? All I'm seeing is the same brand of furious insults that the ironically named @beardyProf seems to favour in place of reasoned argument.
Apoplexy? Really, I simply responded to nonsense. No evidence posted by him I am afraid just an article which suggested an inappropriate relationship. Nothing whatsoever said about unit cohesion in the article so apart from jumping to conclusions where does it state unit cohesion was affected.
Of course there is no suggestion whatsoever that the 2IC of an RAC unit could have trouble with his morals is there?
Where have I used 'furious' insults? Nowhere of course but I have it seems punctured your rather childish self image by drawing attention to those who delude themselves as to their masculinity who now feel undermined that this is challenged by women being potentially better than you.

My evidence is women are meeting the training criteria to be employed in GCC roles, your responses provide evidence that you feel threatened by this. Your rants contain no evidence whatsoever as you have never served on operations with a cohort of female GCC trained and qualified soldiers.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
You don't actually realise how stupid you sound every time you post do you?

Cast your eyes back over this thread and see the unsubstantiated and unsupported assertions you make with no basis in fact and without any supporting evidence whatsoever. The article I posted was a balanced piece written by someone it seems is ex RM. You on the other hand were what? TA RAOC?
The article you posted was a piece of shoite and was treated as such. I'll leave it to former members of the RAOC to adjust your attitude if they feel so inclined.
 
The article you posted was a piece of shoite and was treated as such. I'll leave it to former members of the RAOC to adjust your attitude if they feel so inclined.
Not even the slightest bit amusing or clever, although I am sure in your mind I am sure you think you are. OK then what is your assertion on the subject of this thread and what evidence do you have to support it? If not RAOC what sort of REMF STAB were you?
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
Apoplexy? Really, I simply responded to nonsense. No evidence posted by him I am afraid just an article which suggested an inappropriate relationship. Nothing whatsoever said about unit cohesion in the article so apart from jumping to conclusions where does it state unit cohesion was affected.
Of course there is no suggestion whatsoever that the 2IC of an RAC unit could have trouble with his morals is there?
Where have I used 'furious' insults? Nowhere of course but I have it seems punctured your rather childish self image by drawing attention to those who delude themselves as to their masculinity who now feel undermined that this is challenged by women being potentially better than you.

My evidence is women are meeting the training criteria to be employed in GCC roles, your responses provide evidence that you feel threatened by this. Your rants contain no evidence whatsoever as you have never served on operations with a cohort of female GCC trained and qualified soldiers.
You're talking complete nonsense about training standards without the slightest understanding of how they translate into the real world. You have no experience of commanding mixed units on operations and absolutely nothing of value to say about the practicalities of doing so.

GCC training is entirely irrelevant in the context of the problems I outlined in earlier posts - take your own advice and review the thread.

You haven't 'punctured' anything, you simply come across as a vehement simpleton, often wrong but never in doubt, who hangs on every word in Soldier Magazine.
 

Kefi

Old-Salt
Male-only units have just as much of a problem - no women required. There are infantry Regiments losing 40 soldiers a year to failed drugs tests - at a battalion level, the Black Watch lost 20 last year.

Why do you insist on conflating the issue, there has always been diciplin problems within the regular army, but we are knowingly adding another problem into the mix. The GCC units work at the sharp end of the spear, from my own expereance i can think of multiple scenarios where having 1 or 2 feamles around can cause multiple issues & thats just in a training environment. When two men fall out it usually ends in some kind of agressive action that sees it sorted out. If a M & F fall out then the options open to the women are many & can cause longterm damage. Any aligation of an improper nature will have to be investigated, with no witnesses around who are the seniors going to listen too. A young soldier taking a piss in view of a female on his section could see him ending up on a sex offenders register if she made a strong enough case. A section given a confined space to live in for long periods of time, during Op's or an Ex has a multitude of problems that will test everyone to the full. We have to accept that there will not be a lot of maturity knocking around in an Inf section, & i think many on here forget how it was when we first started out. A bunch of lads living & working together in the high tempo Inf environment finds its own level, that will not be the case when you add a female into the picture. I'm guessing she will feel isolated, venerable & at the bottom of the pile among a group of Alfa males all wanting to prove themselves. Well the die has been cast now so lets sit back & see if any of our misgiving come to fruition ;)
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
(Snip)
Where have I used 'furious' insults? Nowhere of course but I have it seems punctured your rather childish self image by drawing attention to those who delude themselves as to their masculinity who now feel undermined that this is challenged by women being potentially better than you.
(snip)
(snip) If not RAOC what sort of REMF STAB were you?
Your lack of self-awareness is truly breathtaking, though not unsurprising.

To paraphrase a (rather illiterate) previous contributor, I have it seems punctured your rather childish self image by drawing attention to those who delude themselves as to their Regular status who now feel undermined that this is challenged by STABS having demonstrably more relevant operational experience than you... ;-)
 
You're talking complete nonsense about training standards without the slightest understanding of how they translate into the real world. You have no experience of commanding mixed units on operations and absolutely nothing of value to say about the practicalities of doing so.

GCC training is entirely irrelevant in the context of the problems I outlined in earlier posts - take your own advice and review the thread.

You haven't 'punctured' anything, you simply come across as a vehement simpleton, often wrong but never in doubt, who hangs on every word in Soldier Magazine.
You are floundering here and using other people's posts to try to bolster your rant.
You know nothing about me or my experience in command on ops or in mixed units. But you simply do not understand that is entirely irrelevant and I think you have pretty much confused yourself.

This discussion is about females in GCC units, what do you know about this and what evidence do you have on their performance on operations, because you seem pretty sure they underperform in every aspect of their role.

Regular qualified GCC soldiers and officers are a tiny number, perhaps as few as twenty and certainly less than fifty scattered across the RAC and now the Infantry. Please provide examples of where they have failed to perform on operations and which units have had cohesion problems as the result of employing female soldiers in the GCC role.

So now you suggest that training standards are irrelevant, blooming unbelievable.
 
Your lack of self-awareness is truly breathtaking, though not unsurprising.

To paraphrase a (rather illiterate) previous contributor, I have it seems punctured your rather childish self image by drawing attention to those who delude themselves as to their Regular status who now feel undermined that this is challenged by STABS having demonstrably more relevant operational experience than you... ;-)
Goodness more drivel. A quick trip to the sand nearly 17 years ago in a non combat role is hardly relevant operational experience.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
You are floundering here and using other people's posts to try to bolster your rant.
You know nothing about me or my experience in command on ops or in mixed units. But you simply do not understand that is entirely irrelevant and I think you have pretty much

This discussion is about females in GCC units, what do you know about this and what evidence do you have on their performance on operations, because you seem pretty sure they underperform in every aspect of their role.

Regular qualified GCC soldiers and officers are a tiny number, perhaps as few as twenty and certainly less than fifty scattered across the RAC and now the Infantry. Please provide examples of where they have failed to perform on operations and which units have had cohesion problems as the result of employing female soldiers in the GCC role.

So now you suggest that training standards are irrelevant, blooming unbelievable.
1. You don't have any relevant experience because you'd have stuffed it up everyone's nose by now if you had.
2. Your choice of insults (and the specific unit you attempted to denigrate) suggests that you actually have very little in the way of operational experience.
3. The nub of this argument is about the likely performance of women in GCC roles fighting high intensity warfare against a peer opponent - so far the British Army has no experience of this, therefore we are extrapolating from the experience we do have. As per point one, that experience exceeds yours.
4. No-one has said training standards are irrelevant, but they are nowhere near the whole story for reasons explained ad nauseam on this thread.
 

Caecilius

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
No evidence posted by him I am afraid just an article which suggested an inappropriate relationship. Nothing whatsoever said about unit cohesion in the article so apart from jumping to conclusions where does it state unit cohesion was affected.
I think most people would regard a love triangle involving multiple officers that results in a CASD boat having to end it's tour early as a significant cohesion issue.

Your rants contain no evidence whatsoever as you have never served on operations with a cohort of female GCC trained and qualified soldiers.
I have served on operations in both mixed sex and single sex operational units. That's more than can be said for you, and indeed almost anyone else on the thread. Unless you're arguing that the character of GCC units is somehow so different to all others that people behave in a fundamantally different way then I think that's probably decent evidence on which to base an opinion.

My evidence is women are meeting the training criteria to be employed in GCC roles,
Given that the point under discussion is cohesion, I'm not sure this is evidence for anything very much.

I'm also not clear where you got the impression that I feel somehow threatened by having women in combat units but you're way off the mark.
 
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1. You don't have any relevant experience because you'd have stuffed it up everyone's nose by now if you had.
2. Your choice of insults (and the specific unit you attempted to denigrate) suggests that you actually have very little in the way of operational experience.
3. The nub of this argument is about the likely performance of women in GCC roles fighting high intensity warfare against a peer opponent - so far the British Army has no experience of this, therefore we are extrapolating from the experience we do have. As per point one, that experience exceeds yours.
4. No-one has said training standards are irrelevant, but they are nowhere near the whole story for reasons explained ad nauseam on this thread.
Yup more drivel. In response

1. No need to so I don't but in your case I would suggest your experience is out of date and to the point it has no relevance today.
2. I am not trying to denigrate any unit but have, by your failure to reply, illustrated you have no operational experience other than being near operations for a very short time in a non combat role a very long time ago.
3. Your experience of female soldiers in a GCC role is exactly?
4. So you back pedal again?
 
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