All Roles Now Open To Females

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FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
That I didn't know.
I've read both of Bernard Fergusons memoirs, very interesting reading.
I would thoroughly recommend The Road Past Mandalay - John Masters
 
You don't need to be a Para to be able to parachute - that was Slim's point, although his example related to tree-climbing. That's why the Chindit expeditions were made up of standard line infantry.
Errr.... are you sure? I thought that they were mostly formed from a couple of battalions, but that they also took volunteers from elsewhere, while extracting those who didn't cope with the training (i.e. selective). Granted, I could be wrong, but ISTR an article that suggested it removed some of the best NCOs from formations where they were badly needed.

Slim was making the point that the Chindits shouldn't have been a selective force that attracted volunteers:

"... the Chindits, gave a splendid example of courage and hardihood. Yet I came firmly to the conclusion that such formations, trained, equipped and mentally adjusted for one kind of operation were wasteful. They did not give, militarily, a worth-while return for the resources in men, materiel and time that they absorbed. ... [Special forces] were usually formed by attracting the best men ... The result of these methods was undoubtedly to lower the quality of the rest of the Army"

And the tree-climbing quote was "This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier, who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
Errr.... are you sure? I thought that they were mostly formed from a couple of battalions, but that they also took volunteers from elsewhere, while extracting those who didn't cope with the training (i.e. selective). Granted, I could be wrong, but ISTR an article that suggested it removed some of the best NCOs from formations where they were badly needed.

Slim was making the point that the Chindits shouldn't have been a selective force that attracted volunteers:

"... the Chindits, gave a splendid example of courage and hardihood. Yet I came firmly to the conclusion that such formations, trained, equipped and mentally adjusted for one kind of operation were wasteful. They did not give, militarily, a worth-while return for the resources in men, materiel and time that they absorbed. ... [Special forces] were usually formed by attracting the best men ... The result of these methods was undoubtedly to lower the quality of the rest of the Army"

And the tree-climbing quote was "This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier, who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
The Chindit orbat is a matter of historical record and easily sourced. If they felt the need to weed out non-swimmers, it rather makes the point about maintaining standards and not including folk simply to make up the numbers.
 
And yet again the point is made that our GCC units must be fit robust & flexible. There are to many examples throughout militery history that we can use as the reminder to this fact.

And yet again, the question is, how do you know that the females at Catterick at the moment (which number more than I expected), are not fit robust and flexible. How do you know they are not actually fitter more robust & more flexible than some of the blokes.

And if that is the case, should we not cull the blokes who are not up to the female standards ^~
 

Q_Man

Old-Salt
Still a long way from 1960 when the only black lad in my dad's Pars Reg intake was issued boots a size too small to get rid of him.
 

Kefi

Old-Salt
And yet again, the question is, how do you know that the females at Catterick at the moment (which number more than I expected), are not fit robust and flexible. How do you know they are not actually fitter more robust & more flexible than some of the blokes.

And if that is the case, should we not cull the blokes who are not up to the female standards ^~

And yet again CAARPS you get me doubting myself ;)

I have freely admitted i don't know what the pre joining tests are if any, the new fitness test seem to be up to scratch. If they can pass it & tick all the boxes reguarding all the other aspects of training then its a good start.
However we still have what i consider the biggest bridge to cross & that is the one of cohesion. Simply put if you can't put the M & F soldiers in the same room together you can't expect it to work in the real world of soldiering.

I'v already deatialed how the RAF Regt have adjusted their pre selection & phase 1 & 2 training to favour the females odly enough to little effect as none have passed at this moment in time. It seems the RM & Para Regt are sticking to their guns regards pre selection & standards during training that will prevent any females getting a foot in the door.
 
@CAARPS is one of the very few people on here who can almost;) put up an argument for women in the GCC units. The reality is that as of this moment in time no females have yet to have completed training for any of the GCC units with the exception of the RAC. And if this display of good old British squadie grit & ditermination is anything to go by it will be a long time before 1 or 2 actually do.

Apart from the fact that there’s now a female infantry company OC who did all the same courses as the blokes did to get the job with no alteration in standards you mean? And who has now deployed operationally?
 
I take your point & as they say a pass is a pass. But as my deatiled example shows females are not being held to the same standard as males during part of selection & training, this is not something i am making up this is the reality as i have shown.I would say that if they were from the off then there would be even fewer getting a foot in the door if any at all?
I hit my physical peak in my 30's & remember going through hell during basic training at 17 1/2 YOA, comparing that to runing the selection 45 miler in 13 & bit hrs with a bunch of mates for charity when i was 36.

Foot note to your post.

I would be interested to know if she came top of the class or bottom, or somwhere in between. I would put money on it that she got a few concessions thrown her way during the most arduous part of the coures ?
I would also say that the students & staff were put under pressuer to make sure they looked after her in ways a male student would not have been ?
She was held to exactly the same standards and walked it. I know her. If you want to carry on talking bollocks go to the Naafi forum.
 

Kefi

Old-Salt
She was held to exactly the same standards and walked it. I know her. If you want to carry on talking bollocks go to the Naafi forum.
I have no way of knowing if what you are saying is true reguarding you knowing her, or if you are just another arrse troll ?
What i do know & what i base my opinion & ultimately my argument on is the issue of cohesion & the fact that no matter what you or others say the introduction of women into the GCC will change things. The chances of women improving the task of closing with & killing the enemy is low to zero.
 
Errr.... are you sure? I thought that they were mostly formed from a couple of battalions, but that they also took volunteers from elsewhere, while extracting those who didn't cope with the training (i.e. selective). Granted, I could be wrong, but ISTR an article that suggested it removed some of the best NCOs from formations where they were badly needed.

Slim was making the point that the Chindits shouldn't have been a selective force that attracted volunteers:

"... the Chindits, gave a splendid example of courage and hardihood. Yet I came firmly to the conclusion that such formations, trained, equipped and mentally adjusted for one kind of operation were wasteful. They did not give, militarily, a worth-while return for the resources in men, materiel and time that they absorbed. ... [Special forces] were usually formed by attracting the best men ... The result of these methods was undoubtedly to lower the quality of the rest of the Army"

And the tree-climbing quote was "This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier, who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
The Chindits were standard line infantry, intensively trained. 1st Battalion, The Lancashire Fusiliers were one of those battalions. In an interview on The World At War, a Chindit officer said, and I quote, "they were not picked men".
 
You are following the standard rhetoric used by the ''LEFT'' in any debate, attack & discredit to silence your opponent.
You said you didn't understand I said I wasn't surprised. It's pretty obvious form soe of your later comments this wasn't entierly unjusitfied.


I'm indeed married, have a daughter & a granddaughter, i'm a loyal supporter of HM, & respect the strength of Mrs Thatcher. I've given orders to women & taken them from women, I have a good relationship with female friends, all of whom agree with my position on women in the GCC units, how could they not. I have been on record as saying I see a place for women in our SF units & would be the first to applaud women's contribution to our armed forces.
Good for you, it doesn't however alter the weakness of your previous arguments.

You point blank refuse to accept that young men behave in a different way to females
This is where your lack of reasoning becomes apparent again. I didn't say that, what I said was that we need to ensure our young men understand that there are ways not to behave in font of females. There is a big difference.

& on the other hand you expect any behaviour to stop & or change when 1 or 2 females appear on the scene.
Yes because it's 2019 not 1970, the societal attitudes that you are describing are no longer acceptable in the UK, except in certain backwards minority groups.

And you absolutely point blank refuse to accept that having 1 or 2 females in a section, platoon Coy will have no cohesion effect. This is a true case of not understanding women, its you who have the problem not me
It is quite possible that having 1-2 females in a unit will have cohesion effect, it's also quite possible that having 1-2 moderately intelligent people, gay people, coloured people, lazy people, fat unfit people, in a unit will have the same or other negative effects. It's also possible that a unit that deals with the issue will end up stronger than one that is composed only of the ideal soldiers you might prefer.

So you're only joking?
 
what I said was that we need to ensure our young men understand that there are ways not to behave in font of females. There is a big difference.
Are you going to lecture the millions of civvie blokes on how to behave in front of women in their free time as well?
 
Are you going to lecture the millions of civvie blokes on how to behave in front of women in their free time as well?
If I feel it's necessary in a particular situation yes.
 
If I feel it's necessary in a particular situation yes.
Let me know how well that goes the next time you are in a pub and a group of lads are talking about some slag who noshed several of them off (or some other "inappropriate" remark).
 
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