All LEs to IRC?

Discussion in 'Officers' started by Sloppy Link, May 10, 2006.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. A classic of timing, as the signal is released inviting all SSC LE's to convert to IRC, at the same time the gate is closing for making your final, final decision to transfer from AFPS75 to AFPS05. Armed with the knowledge that they are in until 50 many decided to change their pension decision at the last safe moment, in many cases having to personally get in touch with the pensions office to reverse their original decision.
    Here's the hit, not all Arms &Service Directorates agreed with the Army Board's decision and have questioned it with some A&SDs now telling their LE's that the their conversion is "not confirmed"! Oh really? Individuals have made life changing decisions based on that information that they can not reverse (I even heard of one man who married earlier than planned because of it!). I can just see it now, the measure to keep LE's in will in fact have the reverse effect as they will leave in their droves as result of crass mis-management of their lives and I think it will be safe to say that once they have resigned their SSC, some form of individual or even collective court action would make for interesting headlines. Anyone else heard of this?
  2. Sloppy, not sure about the IRC thing but I have looked into other aspects of your post. As to this day I have not recieved my "offer to transfer" I am still in a bit of limbo, before anyone has a go I have asked for it many times. I raised the issue of commissioning and how it would affect my decision. The line I was fed went something like this.

    If your terms of service change after making your decision then you are entitled to revert back to the old pension and vice versa. Another example i specifically asked about was LSL(A), ie: if i only got 1 lot of 5 years when I could reasonably expect to get 3 x 5 years then could I revert to AFPS75, I was told yes. I will try to get this in writing.

    If the above is correct then you should be given the option to revert, if it subsequently changed again (ie: IRC's for all) I would think you would be able to switch to AFPS05.
  3. Has the info been released yet-if so is there a ref on armynet or the like?
  4. PM me with a fax no and I will send you the signal.
  5. Sloppy, cheers for the heads up

    i was aware this was in the pipeline and that future LEs were to commission straight to IRC(LE). Has the official direction been issued?

    I have some SSC LEs wishing to convert their commissions and I need to submit their Annex Ns to ACR shortly as we are off playing games! Does the signal confirm there is no need to submit Annex Ns to convert SSC LE commissions this year? i've heard nothing from Div/Bde MS.
  6. Must admit i had totally discounted the new pension scheme and submitted my return some time ago. Any rough ideas on what it will mean to the average LE who then decides to stick around until 50? Had sat down with lots of fellow LE's and looked hard at the pension thing before deciding to reject the new scheme, without even thinking of the consequences of the changes ToS. Having said that i have not heard one way or another if we as a Corps have signed up for the change, although rumours abound.
  7. Dear fellow crusties, I do not know any of the answers I am afraid but I can give you some information as I understand it.....

    1. The dispute is an AAC thing, the majority of the A&SDs are happy as it keeps their LE's in therefore making manning planning easier.
    2. A pal calculated that if the decision were reversed, his projected earnings loss is in the region of £650K and that is without promotion and there is the stress factor to add on. MoD would have a lot of claims inbound and the press would enjoy every moment of it.
    3. I am sure that if the decision were reversed, they would have to invite us to revisit our pension decisions. I only went to AFPS 05 because of it. It is difficult to generalise because each individual has his own set of circumstances.
    4. The signal makes no reference to ACRs. With one month to go, when I mentioned it, it sent the system into apolexy. Different CoC but at the same location as me, 1stRO has told his men he will report on them as SSC despite them completing the paperwork accepting IRC. What do you put in the box on the front page? As far as I am concerned, I am IRC so how can I be a volunteer to convert? If I do not click tha box but the decision is reversed does that mean at the conversion board, I will not be put forward?
    5. If you can prove that your circumstances did not reflect your pension projection, you should be able to alter your pension decision. Might cost you some angst, depends on your situation. One thing I did find was that the RAO quoted the party line and then took it no further. I went direct to the pensions office who were positively helpful and even rang back the following week to make sure thar they had everything correct.
    6. In my case, swapping to the new scheme was a goer as IRC gave me an extra 2-3 years but of course, it meant my service from just turned 16 was taken into account as well. It was just enough to tip the balance.
    7. Pre-requisite for conversion to IRC was LEOC (after a certain date), how does that work now?
    8. The game of commisioning someone but putting them on hold as the Corps RSM or similar post that has to be filled but the sweetner of straight to IRC has now gone as well or will they offer these people straight to Reg C?
    9. What a cock up. Why should I worry, I have a CoC and a Desk Officer to look after my interests. The one thing I don't need is an Armed Forces Federation to independantly arbitrate individuals working conditions and terms of service. Or do I?

    Always happy to help, pm me if you want more detailed information. The last line I got from my lot was decision in two weeks. That was two weeks ago. I am standing by.

  8. I believe the DIN is due in June, but don't avoid breathing. I looked at the Transfer issue and decided that for me, even with IRC i was better off on AFPS 75, but I don't plan on staying all the way to 50, much less 55.
  9. The DIN is out giving IRC to all LE's....unless you are AAC or certain medical trades. The AAC who for years have been using Aircrew LE's to paper over the cracks due to a lack of DE's have had their bumps felt and may be forced into reverting to the correct LE numbers. The question I have would be in Apr 06, as a result of signal traffic and unit correspondence, I elected to appeal to reverse my pension decision to now be on AFPS 05 as, from the information available to me at the time, I was IRC. Now it appears this is not the case so do I have grounds to ask to revert to AFPS 75? What happens if I subsequently do get IRC? Can I then return to AFPS 05? This has to be the one of the worst cases of man mangement at the highest level;

    1. DMA for not staffing the proposal correctly to all the A&SDs to see the potential pitfalls.
    2. Completely inaccurate information from MCM.
    3. Lack of information from DMA until the DIN issued last week.
    4. Timing. Did no-one consider that this information would affect peoples pension decision?
    5. Timing. Coinciding with the majority of peoples OJARs, always an emotional period.
    6. Lack of direction or conflicting information from within our own Corps to either the individual or his chain of command.

    Not happy. In Apr this year I was delighted at the prospect of being IRC, in until I am 50 with an even shout at promotion and all the security that has to offer. 4 months later I am beginning to wonder if I want to carry on at all in an organisation that deals with it's higher/middle staff in such a shabby manner.
  10. What is the DIN number I have tried to find and failed miserably.

    I have been told I am in one of the "certain medical trades" as it was put but have still to see it in black and white.

    Any help would be much appreciated.
  11. DIN No is


    As an aside.

    If you can prove that you have been informed that you are to convert to IRC and have something in writing (say a signal sent from APC Glasgow on the 21 Feb 06), that says:

    All current SSC(LE) Offrs serving on the 1 Apr 06 will be converted to IRC(LE) WEF 1 Apr 06 (Less those serving on extended service). Offrs not wishing to convert to IRC(LE) will be given one month from the date of the conversion letter to state they do not wish to convert to IRC (LE).

    Admittedly, not being an expert on contract law (any lawyers out there). I would say any subsequent winding in of necks or changing the goal posts would be academic. The key words being WILL BE CONVERTED.

    Any thoughts!!!!!!!!!!
  12. Many thanks CAARPS,
    I've got it now, not exactly happy, but at least I have it in black and white.