Alcohol ban on under 21s

#1
#3
Goku said:
Can we ban the little shites from pubs too?
What even the young girls.... what else can an old man letch at?????
 

Alsacien

LE
Moderator
#4
So an adult who could be married with kids, with licenses to drive vehicles and own firearms, can vote, pay tax and may have put his life on the line for his country in the military - cannot buy a can of beer cos he is not responsible :?
 
#5
Alright, there may be a problem with "binge drinking" and alcohol fuelled violence. But, in my professional life, the majority of people I've seen being violent are actually people in crappy bars in their mid twenties.

I admit that off sales are more unregulated and a lot of people get tanked up on cheap booze before heading into town. So what's the answer? - It's certainly not to have a blanket discriminatory ban (on adults!).

The flip side of the problem is that youngsters (under 18s) also really have nowhere to go so end up on park benches with "white lightening" et al.

20 years ago many a 16 year old would have been in the pub, under the watchful eye of the landlord and other patrons - a blind eye would have been turned. Now, with strict enforcement of the law, they are no longer welcome in pubs. Therefore teenagers are left with nothing to do. They don't want to stay at home (and often parents don't want groups of teenagers in their houses), they can't afford to go to restaurants whenever they want to see friends and cinemas and shops only have so much scope for socialising. Therefore they end up in parks or hanging around ion street corners "getting in the way" and perhaps intimidating other people.

The principle of the pub is that it is a "public house" - a centre point for a community. And as such should have a decent cross section of society in it. It should be a glorified front room. A home from home.

Don't forget, it is illegal to sell alcohol to a drunk person. If there is trouble in a pub then the licencing authorities have the power to close a place down. They should do.

If 16 year old are in a pub they are supervised and, by law, prohibited to get drunk or cause trouble. Why not let them have a drink? I bet it would actually cut youth crime.

My solution to our "binge drink" and under age problems?

Lower the drinknig age to 15/16 - if not get rid of it, but only in pubs, not for off sales.

Tax off-sales heavily and use that to cut tax dramatically for on sales.

Close down problem premesis & places that serve drunk people.
 
#6
bensonby said:
Alright, there may be a problem with "binge drinking" and alcohol fuelled violence. But, in my professional life, the majority of people I've seen being violent are actually people in crappy bars in their mid twenties.

I admit that off sales are more unregulated and a lot of people get tanked up on cheap booze before heading into town. So what's the answer? - It's certainly not to have a blanket discriminatory ban (on adults!).

The flip side of the problem is that youngsters (under 18s) also really have nowhere to go so end up on park benches with "white lightening" et al.

20 years ago many a 16 year old would have been in the pub, under the watchful eye of the landlord and other patrons - a blind eye would have been turned. Now, with strict enforcement of the law, they are no longer welcome in pubs. Therefore teenagers are left with nothing to do. They don't want to stay at home (and often parents don't want groups of teenagers in their houses), they can't afford to go to restaurants whenever they want to see friends and cinemas and shops only have so much scope for socialising. Therefore they end up in parks or hanging around ion street corners "getting in the way" and perhaps intimidating other people.

The principle of the pub is that it is a "public house" - a centre point for a community. And as such should have a decent cross section of society in it. It should be a glorified front room. A home from home.

Don't forget, it is illegal to sell alcohol to a drunk person. If there is trouble in a pub then the licencing authorities have the power to close a place down. They should do.

If 16 year old are in a pub they are supervised and, by law, prohibited to get drunk or cause trouble. Why not let them have a drink? I bet it would actually cut youth crime.

My solution to our "binge drink" and under age problems?

Lower the drinknig age to 15/16 - if not get rid of it, but only in pubs, not for off sales.

Tax off-sales heavily and use that to cut tax dramatically for on sales.

Close down problem premesis & places that serve drunk people.
I've been saying that for years.
 
#7
I am genuinely outraged (probably because I'm under 21!). What possible purpose will raising the age to 21 serve. From what I have heard it only encourages binging in America, especially when you have to wait all that time to drink. As a resident in an area with very few U18s I hope this measure will not come into force, but if it does, it just means getting a train to Guildford to drink there. I don't binge drink, though I have been known to get drunk *once or twice*, but I really think this will be a massive step in the wrong direction. For years various governments have come to the conclusion that banning and restricting things will solve social woes. Of course it won't, let's embrace the French approach, a little watered down wine at a young age and see how it goes from there. I used to like Boris...:(
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer
#8
I think a lot of this is knee-jerk reaction to urban problems. My village pub lets teenagers into the pool room, sell them soft drinks, keep an eye on them. Publican makes a few quid on the dead nights of the week, teenagers learned how to behave and be responsible, and mix with older drinkers over a game. Easy.

Many years ago of course, there was even a pump of 'boys' bitter' on the bar so they learned to handle booze under the eye of their fathers, uncles and neighbours.

Nowadays the urban 'vertical drinking' venues are aimed at a single group, i.e. 18-25 year olds and there's no restraining influence. Because they misbehave, that's what's paraded in the red tops and on TV news. I suspect that yet again a minority will be the cause of knee-jerk legislation which affects everyone.

(Odd that one of our Victorian Prime Ministers was quoted as saying there were enough laws and Parliament didn't need to make any more. Perhaps someone should tell Broon & Smith so!)
 
#9
This is yet another hair brained scheme to show our polititians are doing something. You know and I know it wont change anything, but it will cost very little. Actually doing something that would actually make a difference would cost money so don't hold your breath, Gordon has already spent it all.
 
#10
When I was 18, at high school in America, we weren't allowed to buy alcohol. So, my fellow students exercised the following options:

1. get someone else to buy it for them;
2. steal it from their parents;
3. get fake ID;
4. give up on booze and take drugs instead. Plenty of them had given up on dope and acid by the time they were 17 because getting beer was more of a challenge.

This was 25 years ago FFS! Perhaps someone could try to learn from history rather than re-inventing that flat round thing we nail onto our cars...
 
#11
The drinking age in the USA is 21, has it cut down on underaged drinking, not a chance.

The drinking age in the UK is 18, has it cut down on underaged drinking, not a chance.

The drinking age in Canada is 19, has it cut down on underaged drinking, not a chance. My daughter (17) and her group of friends just get one of their older workmates to buy the liquor for them. This has been going on for generations. Actually, it was funny last week, they had just bought their booze and headed down to the park for a session when they got busted by a cop on a pushbike. He made them hand over every bottle and poured it out in front of them. No ticket. Muhahahaaha
 
#12
Your daughter's 17 and likes a drink, eh?
 
#13
They had a trial of this in a village Scotland

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7457387.stm

"Recorded calls about vandalism and assault fell by half and there was a 55% cut in calls from residents to police about youths.

Anecdotal evidence from youth workers also dispelled one of the main concerns - that teenagers would go to other towns to buy their drink - but the view from the ground was they had stuck to their usual territory.

Ch Insp Jim Baird, of Lothian and Borders Police, said that although Armadale's crime figures were low at the outset, there was a drop in the number of youths making a pest of themselves on the streets, before the figures returned to their previous levels at the end."

There was nothing to stop the over 18s going to the local pubs, and knowing some people that live there, they said it was great while the trial was run as the chavs weren't causing havoc when pissed.
 
#14
How about a ban on hard liquer and the stronger drinks until you are 21, with the not so strong drinks available at 18. Allow beer to be sold at a younger age ie 16 or less.

Works in Germany.
 
#15
easesprings said:
Goku said:
Can we ban the little shites from pubs too?
What even the young girls.... what else can an old man letch at?????
May I recommend the 'foundation garments' section in the Littlewoods catalogue.

Undies that could double as body armour - all amply displayed by ladies of a certain age who think anorexia is a Russian tennis player.
 
#16
Spank-it said:
My daughter (17) and her group of friends just get one of their older workmates to buy the liquor for them. This has been going on for generations.
'kin 'ell!

How old was she when these older generations started buying booze for her? 8O And did you question their motives?


It's a sign of the times.

Remember, this is a pilot scheme. From London, it will spread to national - just as the Congestion Charge is planned to. Thereafter it will spread from offies and shops to the pubs themselves (if there are any left by that time).

The age of homosexual consent has been lowered, the age at which a girl can get the contraceptive pill has been lowered, yet the smoking age has been raised, there's talk of raising the driving age (again, to those of us who could drive a minibus at age 17), and now alcohol, most of which would have been consumed in the privacy of a private residence.

What's the message that's being given out? You can shag kids silly but don't engage in traditionally chauvenistic entertainment?


ON THE OTHER HAND, the cynic in me is thinking that it's a ploy to massage statistics. If Club 18-21 can't buy booze to drink at home, they'll resort to going to the pub. This will boost pub takings, perhaps even making up for the losses caused by the smoking ban, resulting in less pubs closing down. Give it a year or so, then the figures will come out stating that the smoking ban has had no effect on pub sales, other than a slight blip while the public was getting used to it.

The cynic is also saying that because booze is more expensive in pubs than in the supermarket, there's a little bit more VAT revenue headed towards the Treasury.
 
#17
putteesinmyhands said:
Spank-it said:
My daughter (17) and her group of friends just get one of their older workmates to buy the liquor for them. This has been going on for generations.
'kin 'ell!

How old was she when these older generations started buying booze for her? 8O And did you question their motives?
Ooops, Did I say 17 - I meant to say 77.
 
#18
putteesinmyhands said:
The cynic is also saying that because booze is more expensive in pubs than in the supermarket, there's a little bit more VAT revenue headed towards the Treasury.
OOOh you are an old cynic aren't you? Probably right though.

Overall seems the usual gubmint response to anything - causing a problem? Ban it :roll:
 
#19
johnboyzzz said:
They had a trial of this in a village Scotland

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7457387.stm

"Recorded calls about vandalism and assault fell by half and there was a 55% cut in calls from residents to police about youths.

Anecdotal evidence from youth workers also dispelled one of the main concerns - that teenagers would go to other towns to buy their drink - but the view from the ground was they had stuck to their usual territory.

Ch Insp Jim Baird, of Lothian and Borders Police, said that although Armadale's crime figures were low at the outset, there was a drop in the number of youths making a pest of themselves on the streets, before the figures returned to their previous levels at the end."

There was nothing to stop the over 18s going to the local pubs, and knowing some people that live there, they said it was great while the trial was run as the chavs weren't causing havoc when pissed.
I suspect the ban itself was only part of the story. Small places like Armadal have piss-poor public transport out of peak times, and are incredibly parochial besides. IMO major factors would be a lack of means and desire to go somewhere else even for for bevvy; and the high likelihood of getting a kicking off the local lads in the place you go to.

Where there's a bit more mobility the picture won't be so rosy.
 
#20
The question is also beggered as to why 18-20 year olds feel the need to sit on park beneches with the white lightening when they could be in the nice warm pub.

Yes, price is certianly a factor - but that points more to the fact that booze in pubs is over-priced and over taxed.
 

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