Alan Milburn Foists Socialist Agenda on Universities

#1
BBC News - Unis 'should offer poor pupils automatic interview'

Apparently if you're Alan Milburn, being poor is a better indicator of academic ability than, er, academic ability.


Can someone in power please be PC and point out that a large number of people are poor because they're lazy and/or stupid and their children are also more likely to be lazy and/or stupid?
 
#2
This will please all the Three Year Socialists at Uni's round the country. Be nice if the Politicos would keep their mouths shut unless they have something that is actually intelligent to offer.

Milburn is just an utter plonker
 
#3
It frustrates me when people confuse equal opportunities with giving 'the poor' more opportunity than 'the rich'.

Apart from being unfair to those who happen to be well off, it turns what should be a positive thing (earning a university place, despite being poor) into a negative (being given a university place despite not having earned it) in the eyes of those who have had to earn places the hard way.
 
#4
This will please all the Three Year Socialists at Uni's round the country. Be nice if the Politicos would keep their mouths shut unless they have something that is actually intelligent to offer.

Milburn is just an utter plonker
So tell me, was that well known commie BBC commentator Andrew Neill lying when he said that Harvard did just what Milburn is advocating?

:roll:
 
#5
Glad I'm not ten years younger. My A-Levels and good upbringing from my decent parents would be worth nowt.

But some ******** chav called Dwayne will walk into Oxbridge with a GCSE grade G in Home Ec because his parents are feral druggie scum.

I hate Labour more by the day. Why don't we just give free degrees out to everyone on their 21st birthday. Let's completely devalue an already almost worthless degree system and have even more 'graduates' stacking shelves in Tesco, eh?

Well done Labour, once again.
 
#7
So tell me, was that well known commie BBC commentator Andrew Neill lying when he said that Harvard did just what Milburn is advocating?

:roll:
Never said anybody was lying. Merely pointed out its a bad idea. and that its not going to solve any of the problems
 
#8
So tell me, was that well known commie BBC commentator Andrew Neill lying when he said that Harvard did just what Milburn is advocating?

:roll:
But Whet the "poor" that are given places at Harvard have to meet and exceed the academic standards set by the respective faculty. Harvard provide free places to the poor on the basis that the individual is a borderline genius - is that what Milburn is saying?
 
#9
Exactly.



I'm all for academically gifted individuals being allowed to reach their potential - even if it involves spending my tax money to ensure that the poor can afford it - but he seems to want universities to lower their standards for admission if the prospective student is poor.
It frustrates me when people confuse equal opportunities with giving 'the poor' more opportunity than 'the rich'.
Indeed - it's what politicians call "positive discrimination" and the real world calls "unfair PC bollocks".


I remember when I was a lad, I was studying for some NVQ or something as part of working as a lifeguard and I remember reading for the first time about "positive discrimination". The manual said that a candidate for a job from an ethnic minority could be preferred for a job over a non-minority if they were working in a community role in a minority area.

So in other words, black communities could pick black candidates for their community sports officer [or some other bollocks job], presumably the same couldn't be said for white candidates. The principle that maybe we should just pick the best person for the job regardless of skin colour seems a rather alien idea if the candidate has the right skin colour. Now Labour (or at least an ex-Labour MP) wants to apply the same principles to people's backgrounds. Great.
 
#10
The thing is if you go to eton its obviously much easier to get 3* plus choclates sprinkles on your a levels or whatever the highest level is.
Than if you go to a state school so claiming its a level playing field to start with is bollocks.
 
#11
This will please all the Three Year Socialists at Uni's round the country. Be nice if the Politicos would keep their mouths shut unless they have something that is actually intelligent to offer.

Milburn is just an utter plonker
Nothings changed from when he was MP for Darlington then. Used to attend meetings on drug prevention in the town and insist there was no drug problem, contrary to all the evidence. Total tool.....
 
#12
BH - Utter bollocks.

Eton kids do the same exams that Scumsville Comprehensive kids do.

The exam playing field is completely level. It's whether the kids spend their GCSE year mething up at home or revising that makes the difference.

Most often (not always) people in the UK are poor and uneducated because they are stupid and lazy, not because 'The Man' has beaten them down.
 
#13
BH - Utter bollocks.

Eton kids do the same exams that Scumsville Comprehensive kids do.

The exam playing field is completely level. It's whether the kids spend their GCSE year mething up at home or revising that makes the difference.

Most often (not always) people in the UK are poor and uneducated because they are stupid and lazy, not because 'The Man' has beaten them down.
Or perhaps it's because they have a fuckton of problems at home, or they just didn't get a decent start in life. And sometimes the motivation to do better comes from life experience.
 
#14
But Whet the "poor" that are given places at Harvard have to meet and exceed the academic standards set by the respective faculty. Harvard provide free places to the poor on the basis that the individual is a borderline genius - is that what Milburn is saying?
With respect Farmboy, but that isn't true. Neill spoke of a single mother from LA who was taken in preference to a lad from a better off background who got better grades..

There are good reasons behind this initiative.
 

Travelgall

LE
Kit Reviewer
#15
I'm not one to cheer on the lefties but Zanu Labour can't actually be blamed on this one. Alan Milburn was hired by the Conservatives to "think the unthinkable" on social mobility. Unlike T'Labour Party who will only ever accept their own dogma, the evil Tories were willing to spread their net wider. I doubt they will actually agree with everything Mr Milburn has said, or even a lot of it but they will actually look at what he has said. Mr Milburn and Kate Hoey remind me that not every Labour MP is a chippy tribal nob who is part of some sort of plot to destroy my country (Thinking Brown, TCH, Mandleson, Blair, Skinner). I don't agree with everything they say but they deserve in my eyes to be at least listened to.
 
#16
BH - Utter bollocks.

Eton kids do the same exams that Scumsville Comprehensive kids do.

The exam playing field is completely level. It's whether the kids spend their GCSE year mething up at home or revising that makes the difference.

Most often (not always) people in the UK are poor and uneducated because they are stupid and lazy, not because 'The Man' has beaten them down.
Bollocks with respect to eton 0ver 3x the amount spent per average state pupil shed more resources etc etc.
They are just whining that Rupert isnt getting a place at oxbridge by right and 93% of A level students are getting a more equal chance at the top unis.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#17
Positive discrimination simply opens up a whole new avenue of corruption and invariably drags down standards as institutions struggle to show that the recipient is worthy and start fiddling the criteria for acceptance. It also never seems to apply to those in power or their families and given how many MPs have prior family connections to their respective political parties, they are in no position to lecture any of us on the subject.

If we're serious about improving access, we should raise standards in schools generally and open routes to university which do not result in students embracing penury from the moment of graduation, whatever class they come from. As a country we need to identify the critical disciplines, such as Physics, Maths, Engineering, subsidise them completely and shift the cost onto those who want to do Media Studies/Star Wars Theology/Klingon Studies etc. We also need to stop the creep of tertiary education into areas which are essentially vocational and which do not realistically require three years of academic study with the associated cost.

To 'level the playing field' and keep it level, even if it was possible, would take more money than this country will ever see. We don't need to waste money playing 'God' with a tiny number of individuals from an outgroup of choice, particularly since those who call for such measures are generally right on, middle class liberal males in very well paid jobs and with absolutely no intention of leading by example and making way for the disadvantaged themselves.
 
#18
Bollocks with respect to eton 0ver 3x the amount spent per average state pupil shed more resources etc etc.
They are just whining that Rupert isnt getting a place at oxbridge by right and 93% of A level students are getting a more equal chance at the top unis.

No they're not!

They're whining because,once again a politician is tinkering with further education.

Any academicaly bright kid,regardless of background,should have the ability to go to University,the reason kids from public schools have found it easier comes down to money.

A kid from a public school background,will not worry about Tuition Fees (which I would like to point out,were bought in by the Blair government),because 'daddies rich',whereas the kid from 'the council estate',who is just as clever,would sit down and,do his sums,before contemplating Uni.

As far as Milburn goes,it's more Labour 'Social Engineering',he's just continuing what,Wilson started in the 70's,a decline in educational standards,to the detriment of the kids.

But,you're right about educational spending,maybe it's about time to end,the experiment that was Tuition Fees,and go back to,Means Tested Grants,eh? ;-)
 
#19
A lot of state schools are utter shite and a lot of bright people become disaffected and give up for lack of the chance to shine academically. At the same time, a lot of middle-class dullards without a spark of curiosity or originality between them get to uni because good state or private schools have coached/helped them in passing exams.

If the likes of Milburn want to level the playing-field, they should be supporting Access courses to start at 18 for people with the intellect, but who have been cheated out of a decent education thanks to the absurd egalitarian theories of education he and his ilk have peddled through the years.

Sending ill-educated people to university just sets them up for failure. I know, I've tried to help them and watched them fail; I've argued against this with former colleagues who agree that I am right but prefer to kow-tow to Govt policy rather than exercising academic integrity. Pension-stackers.
 
#20
Or perhaps it's because they have a fuckton of problems at home, or they just didn't get a decent start in life. And sometimes the motivation to do better comes from life experience.
That's why I said (not always)!

If it makes you feel any better, I started off at a Comprehensive school, won a scholarship to a public school and graduated before joining the Army. Proof that the old system worked!

What I don't want is kids from decent backgrounds who graft their nuts off to be left behind because some tosser from a shit family gets his place at Uni with worse grades only to wrap the course after 3 months because he can't be arsed/is too thick.
 

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