Alabama USA: Medieval or religious fundamentalist thinking?

#82
I don't have much experience of the south, especially AL - usually tend to fly straight over it to FL when visiting fam.

I do like Charolette, NC though. Sort of an in between north and south blend - especially since they have so many Euros there now because of Volvo, Mercedes etc.
I had to pop over and see the neighbour quickly this morning and..............lo and behold............the church was mentioned. At least it was in the context of her church disagreeing with what is going on in 'Bama.
 
#85
Maybe because the LGBT community are living humans and the 'unborn' is often a collection of dividing cells, many of which will be miscarried without the mother even realising?

If we have the rights of the unborn, what about the rights of a tumour?


Maths isn't your strong point, is it. 24 weeks = 168 days = 5 1/2 months. That is the legal limit, most will happen before that point. Factor in that babies born before that 24 week cutoff have a low chance of survival and high chance of disability and it doesn't seem that unreasonable, given any limit is going to be arbitrary.
I don't disagree that six weeks is a bit well early. But at what point does the Fetus feel pain? I have read between 20-27 weeks. So with that in mind, it does make it rather barbaric to abort a child just because mom and dad decided to engage in some activity with consequences.
 
#86
I suppose some of those Alabamians may look to the UK and consider the fact the state will allow you to abort a healthy foetus in it's seventh month of life for the sake of convenience as barbaric and inhuman.

Abortion
I'd be surprised if many of them were aware of the world outside of America
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
#87
I don't disagree that six weeks is a bit well early. But at what point does the Fetus feel pain? I have read between 20-27 weeks. So with that in mind, it does make it rather barbaric to abort a child just because mom and dad decided to engage in some activity with consequences.
That's all very well, but would you like to explain exactly what business it is of yours?

You seem very quick to denounce Brits allegedly applying their moral values to life in the US, so what suddenly gives you the right to impose your moral values on pregnant women?

MsG
 
#88
That's all very well, but would you like to explain exactly what business it is of yours?

You seem very quick to denounce Brits allegedly applying their moral values to life in the US, so what suddenly gives you the right to impose your moral values on pregnant women?

MsG
Fathers have rights as well, as it does take two to create life. Why should only one person have the power to take it?
 
#89
I’ve gone back and forth on the abortion issue and I appreciate the pro-life arguments more as I get older. There’s a perfectly legitimate moral argument that abortion is killing a human which is consistent with natural rights. You don’t have to be religious to be against it.
The debate though is now hugely political and toxic. Both sides are too entrenched to even begin understanding the other side’s point of view.
 
#90
I’ve gone back and forth on the abortion issue and I appreciate the pro-life arguments more as I get older. There’s a perfectly legitimate moral argument that abortion is killing a human which is consistent with natural rights. You don’t have to be religious to be against it.
The debate though is now hugely political and toxic. Both sides are too entrenched to even begin understanding the other side’s point of view.
Fair enough. Americans of course (in lots of places) don’t really have a problem with terminating life.
 
#91
Fathers have rights as well, as it does take two to create life. Why should only one person have the power to take it?
Sorry to be crude, but it's easy to F-k. But if it results in an unwanted pregnancy from the women's side for whatever reason, she SHOULD have the say in it. Why? Because she is the one carrying it and will have to through the whole ordeal. It's easy enough walking around saying " I have rights too!" when you don't have to go through with it.
 
#92
I’ve gone back and forth on the abortion issue and I appreciate the pro-life arguments more as I get older. There’s a perfectly legitimate moral argument that abortion is killing a human which is consistent with natural rights. You don’t have to be religious to be against it.
The debate though is now hugely political and toxic. Both sides are too entrenched to even begin understanding the other side’s point of view.
There is a perfectly sensible debate about where in term it can be permitted across countries, religions and atheists, men and women. Generally based on medical knowledge.

Banning it at conception, and explicitly removing rape and incest as factors is not part of that debate. It's completely insane.
 
#93
Anyways, let AL make its choices - their state - their choice - a state I couldn't give a s-h-i-t about. Like a few out there. Let them be "conservative" or whatever they would like to call themselves and be a backwater.
 
#94
Sorry to be crude, but it's easy to F-k. But if it results in an unwanted pregnancy from the women's side for whatever reason, she SHOULD have the say in it. Why? Because she is the one carrying it and will have to through the whole ordeal. It's easy enough walking around saying " I have rights too!" when you don't have to go through with it.
40 weeks ain't shit compared to a lifetime brother.
 
#95
Anyways, let AL make its choices - their state - their choice - a state I couldn't give a s-h-i-t about. Like a few out there. Let them be "conservative" or whatever they would like to call themselves and be a backwater.
You went to school in a backwater state, remember??
 
#96
I don't disagree that six weeks is a bit well early. But at what point does the Fetus feel pain? I have read between 20-27 weeks. So with that in mind, it does make it rather barbaric to abort a child just because mom and dad decided to engage in some activity with consequences.
12 week Scan is usually seen as the starting gun for a baby. If its viable and has a clean bill of health at that stage, the only valid excuse for abortion is if the mothers health is at risk, then its her choice.

The troubling thought is that we are lied too and most terminations after 12 weeks were viable and the decision was made for lifestyle reasons alone.
 
#97
I don't disagree that six weeks is a bit well early. But at what point does the Fetus feel pain? I have read between 20-27 weeks. So with that in mind, it does make it rather barbaric to abort a child just because mom and dad decided to engage in some activity with consequences.
I can't speak for the US but the statistics for England and Wales in 2004 show a very clear trend, 60% of abortions took place at under 10 weeks pregnancy and 88% took place at less than 13 weeks pregnancy - Abortion statistics, England and Wales: 2004 : Department of Health - Publications

Most of those were women aged under 25. Do you really think it's more barbaric to abort a foetus than make a child grow up with a mother that doesn't want it? What's worse, some possible sensation of pain (in a clump of cells with a still developing nervous system) or 16 years of poor home life?

People will always have unprotected sex and unwanted pregnancy will happen, especially among the young and stupid who will make the worst parents. In my opinion it's better to have safe legal abortion within reasonable limits than force women to have babies they don't want or go through illegal abortions. Incidentally, the death rate from illegal abortions (of mother and foetus) is now effectively zero in the UK.
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
#98
12 week Scan is usually seen as the starting gun for a baby. If its viable and has a clean bill of health at that stage, the only valid excuse for abortion is if the mothers health is at risk, then its her choice.

The troubling thought is that we are lied too and most terminations after 12 weeks were viable and the decision was made for lifestyle reasons alone.
The bullshit about "lifestyle reasons" is often used by the pro-lifers as a catch-all to shut down the debate. From what I've experienced, one of the main reasons for terminations is that young women become aware of the fact that they're about to enter into an ongoing obligation lasting (at least) 16 years. That thought is too much for them and they don't know if they can hack it.

Let's face it, in other walks of life you're allowed to dip out of a duty (a different job in the company, a post with more responsibility etc) if you have the feeling that you wouldn't be able to manage it, but where babies are concerned it, suddenly and inexplicably, becomes a moral question.

MsG
 
Maybe because the LGBT community are living humans and the 'unborn' is often a collection of dividing cells, many of which will be miscarried without the mother even realising?

If we have the rights of the unborn, what about the rights of a tumour?


Maths isn't your strong point, is it. 24 weeks = 168 days = 5 1/2 months. That is the legal limit, most will happen before that point. Factor in that babies born before that 24 week cutoff have a low chance of survival and high chance of disability and it doesn't seem that unreasonable, given any limit is going to be arbitrary.
No excuse for bad arithmetic.... Even so aborting a healthy foetus at 5 1/2 months on demand - which is effectively the system we have in England does not, in my view make you morally superior to the legislators of Alabama. The fact that the NHS likes to claim that most abortions happen to occur before that point is irrelevant, the point is that what may in due time may become a human being is killed for convenience.

That we, as a society have decided that some lives are more important than others is a decision that we've made and that must be abided by, but let's not pretend abortion is some sort of marker of civilisation and sneer at those who decide differently.
 

Similar threads


New Posts

Latest Threads

Top