AJAX - the ‘NOT the CR2 upgrade’ thread

I’m inclined to agree, not least because that’s where civilian automotives are going. The real challenge will be the energy transport to the vehicles. That said, on a series hybrid the ability to plug in would cover a decent proportion of vehicle use when not on operations.

I imagine the diesel generator powering the tank would be swapped out for the hydrogen or derivative/related technology when it has matured enough.
If you tanks are on a range day, plugging into the national grid to power your panzer is likely to be a useful bonus reducing wear and tear. Equally it gives options for moving the tanks when the pack is pulled in workshops.

The Germans are currently fielding a quad-track electric drive AFV in the Luftbeweglicher Waffenträger. Which I've been saying is the way forward for a good many years.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Electric drive means you could actually mount the motors in the suspension units. Lots of distributed power and, potentially, more redundancy in terms of powertrain damage/failure.

Leaves lots of space in the back for a bloody big battery.

In fact, it/they could also go where you like…
 
Electric drive means you could actually mount the motors in the suspension units. Lots of distributed power and, potentially, more redundancy in terms of powertrain damage/failure.
I don’t know that putting the drive motors in the unsprung components is necessarily a good idea. Roadwheels get knocked about something fierce.
You’d also want to look into how tracks cope with having two drive units on the same run.
If you went with wheels and pneumatic tyres it wouldn’t be so much of an issue.
Leaves lots of space in the back for a bloody big battery.

In fact, it/they could also go where you like…
On of the strengths of a hybrid solution is the ability to move components about, though I suspect there may be factors that would push the solution into particular arrangements, like minimising long high-power cables, getting cooling to your motors and power generators.
 
I don’t know that putting the drive motors in the unsprung components is necessarily a good idea. Roadwheels get knocked about something fierce.
You’d also want to look into how tracks cope with having two drive units on the same run.
If you went with wheels and pneumatic tyres it wouldn’t be so much of an issue.

On of the strengths of a hybrid solution is the ability to move components about, though I suspect there may be factors that would push the solution into particular arrangements, like minimising long high-power cables, getting cooling to your motors and power generators.

The term "unsprung weight" comes to mind - the fraction of the vehicle's mass that's not supported on the suspension and that therefore gets chucked about by the road. You want as little as possible.

That said going electric drive makes a whole lot of sense, especially when you think that at some point we will want to explore directed-energy weapons, even if only for APS rather than main armament, so having an ample electrical supply would be an important growth margin.
 
Agreed but Terrier was beset by problems and delivered around 2-3 years late if my memory serves me correctly. I remember a few of the trials on RETA back in 2007/8 ish and they were beset by problems.

2 years late on a significantly shorter development timescale doesn't sound so bad....
 
2 years late on a significantly shorter development timescale doesn't sound so bad....
I agree but they had also learnt (I would like to think) the lessons from T2 procurement and fielding activities. Terrier is one of the few armoured wagons I have never been in so couldn't comment from an integration perspective of Bowman etc.

I know that the T2 integration fit for Bowman was a bastardisation and that things like the BNAU were bolted in upside down to make them fit. I know Terrier had a lot of logistical problems from an ALS/ILS perspective as my mate worked on that side of things which delayed things but don't know enough about the rest of the issues that affected the programme.
 
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Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
I don’t know that putting the drive motors in the unsprung components is necessarily a good idea. Roadwheels get knocked about something fierce.
You’d also want to look into how tracks cope with having two drive units on the same run.
If you went with wheels and pneumatic tyres it wouldn’t be so much of an issue.

On of the strengths of a hybrid solution is the ability to move components about, though I suspect there may be factors that would push the solution into particular arrangements, like minimising long high-power cables, getting cooling to your motors and power generators.
Poor wording on my part. If we look at a lot of EV proposals, rather than there being one big motor, there are two/four positioned close to where the wheels are. In what's termed 'the wheel corner' rather than in the wheel itself.

I had in mind, given the weight difference between a car and an MBT, a motor could be mounted close to a wheel or group of wheels.

Another factor in terms of component positioning is going to be protection - batteries have a nasty habit of burning fiercely.
 

JCC

LE
If we call the Armour whatever currently in service Generation "-X" or even "--X" then I think we'd be better buying OTS Generation "X" or even "X+" since we don't seem to have the ability to deliver it ourselves at the moment.

However, following on from @Listy , and thinking about UK Plc it would be good to aquire and/or polish those skills. A suitable project, when we feel we're up to it, may be a family of Generation "X+++" or better so that when the time comes we're able to upgrade, and sell, a first-rate solution.

I still like the idea of flying sharks with lasers but networked.
 
Poor wording on my part. If we look at a lot of EV proposals, rather than there being one big motor, there are two/four positioned close to where the wheels are. In what's termed 'the wheel corner' rather than in the wheel itself.

I had in mind, given the weight difference between a car and an MBT, a motor could be mounted close to a wheel or group of wheels.

Another factor in terms of component positioning is going to be protection - batteries have a nasty habit of burning fiercely.
Battery tech is one ever evolving more and more quickly. The new dry cell/gel batteries are far more stable than electrolyte filled ones and offer far more life and intelligence within them
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
If we call the Armour whatever currently in service Generation "-X" or even "--X" then I think we'd be better buying OTS Generation "X" or even "X+" since we don't seem to have the ability to deliver it ourselves at the moment.

However, following on from @Listy , and thinking about UK Plc it would be good to aquire and/or polish those skills. A suitable project, when we feel we're up to it, may be a family of Generation "X+++" or better so that when the time comes we're able to upgrade, and sell, a first-rate solution.

I still like the idea of flying sharks with lasers but networked.
I think that there are other areas that we could concentrate our expertise in terms of value/income to the UK besides MBTs.
 

JCC

LE
I think that there are other areas that we could concentrate our expertise in terms of value/income to the UK besides MBTs.
Not exclusive but we will need armour be it IFV family, or MBT.

But we do need to re-acquire the specification, design and management skills and it should be a "skunk" type project that is allowed to fail iteratively, and span as many skill-sets as is practicable.

Any armoured vehicle type project would contribute usefully to MBT, SPG, IFV, drones, comms, AI etc
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
I think that there are other areas that we could concentrate our expertise in terms of value/income to the UK besides MBTs.

Not being entirely serious and not being entirely flippant either


(yes I'd love to zip around in one of these equipped with a pair of MGs and and GMG, but they'd only be a niche role much like motorbikes are used today)
 

JCC

LE
Not being entirely serious and not being entirely flippant either


(yes I'd love to zip around in one of these equipped with a pair of MGs and and GMG, but they'd only be a niche role much like motorbikes are used today)

Give it a CB radio and a Garmin and call it Recce?
 
I think that there are other areas that we could concentrate our expertise in terms of value/income to the UK besides MBTs.
Totally agree and we need to be smart with as we have all said best value for money. But as keeps getting mooted we need to be a SMART economy that can flex where appropriately. There are many defence buyers that are crying out for UK products but HMG is just not clever enough to be able to offer the services they need
 

TamH70

MIA
Not being entirely serious and not being entirely flippant either


(yes I'd love to zip around in one of these equipped with a pair of MGs and and GMG, but they'd only be a niche role much like motorbikes are used today)

Some US Air Force general has already bought one of those and customized it to your specs, or I'm not an experienced watcher of US military procurement. Remember, one of them ordered the production of a full-sized T800 Cyberdyne Systems Model 101 endoskeleton after watching "The Terminator". I don't think that they were daft enough to actually kit it out with computers and so on, but it was built and the guy who ordered it done quite liked it.
 
Poor wording on my part. If we look at a lot of EV proposals, rather than there being one big motor, there are two/four positioned close to where the wheels are. In what's termed 'the wheel corner' rather than in the wheel itself.

I had in mind, given the weight difference between a car and an MBT, a motor could be mounted close to a wheel or group of wheels.

Another factor in terms of component positioning is going to be protection - batteries have a nasty habit of burning fiercely.
As for electric panzer, it has been done already, Ferdinand Porsche designed the Elefant in WW2
A pair of 300 ps Maybach petrol engines turning a Dynamo each, in turn powering an electric motor on each rear drive sprocket.
 

TamH70

MIA
As for electric panzer, it has been done already, Ferdinand Porsche designed the Elefant in WW2
A pair of 300 ps Maybach petrol engines turning a Dynamo each, in turn powering an electric motor on each rear drive sprocket.

Yep.

And such a great success it was too. Especially mountaineering in Italy.
 
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