Airwave replacement...

#1
Anyone got any detail on this? The only thing of interest I’ve found was a comment stating the one issues is the the proposed technology is not proven. That sounds like someone high up has been wowed by flashing lights.
 
#2
I bet it's more to do with the cost of maintaining the existing Airwave network, otherwise why bin it as it's reliable and does the job

Might be difficult to get comment from anyone who works or has worked there, they're a bit hot on security
 
#3
As Lokiuk said, comms gear projects tend not to get much info passed outside of the Project/MoD as security is a bit of a big issue.

Probably also spot on that it'll be something like cost of support, logistics or such driving any move to replace the system.
 
#4
Home Office, which is leading on this, has fallen out with EE about scope and money. The original plan was to do it all as an MVNO within EE's public network, plus some extra infrastructure in out of the way places and some interesting restoration/response kit. But that's not cutting it
 
#5
I bet it's more to do with the cost of maintaining the existing Airwave network, otherwise why bin it as it's reliable and does the job

Might be difficult to get comment from anyone who works or has worked there, they're a bit hot on security
Well the system is old and maintenance would come from a separate pot than the project so I doubt it’s that/those.
 
#6
Home Office, which is leading on this, has fallen out with EE about scope and money. The original plan was to do it all as an MVNO within EE's public network, plus some extra infrastructure in out of the way places and some interesting restoration/response kit. But that's not cutting it
That sounds very similar to the global connectivity debacle.
 
#7
The system is old as **** (nearly obsolete going into service) and Telefonica O2 would really like to use the long reach 900MHz spectrum for something that makes them more money (IE cat videos, porn, disinformation, arrse).

Users want coverage first and then bandwidth, with fancy features a long way last, but the whole premise of the contract was that EE could do it through fancy features without too much expensive coverage to build out. It turns out EE (ie BT)'s network is not as good as they promised, but adding more = lots more £, especially as EE is happy to share with its customer but less happy to share with the competition although that would make it all cheaper.
 
#8
I bet it's more to do with the cost of maintaining the existing Airwave network, otherwise why bin it as it's reliable and does the job

Might be difficult to get comment from anyone who works or has worked there, they're a bit hot on security




....Ask the Russians, or Chinese, they seem to have their fingers on the pulse,... as it were!
 
#9
Who would of thought it.
The Government getting fleeced and fucked over by private companies promising the world and halfway through demanding the family jewels.
 
#10
The system is old as **** (nearly obsolete going into service) and Telefonica O2 would really like to use the long reach 900MHz spectrum for something that makes them more money (IE cat videos, porn, disinformation, arrse).

Users want coverage first and then bandwidth, with fancy features a long way last, but the whole premise of the contract was that EE could do it through fancy features without too much expensive coverage to build out. It turns out EE (ie BT)'s network is not as good as they promised, but adding more = lots more £, especially as EE is happy to share with its customer but less happy to share with the competition although that would make it all cheaper.
In other words bin what works for something new and modern that doesn't have the same reliability but enables them to make money selling off the 900MHZ spectrum, so nothing to do with money at all
 
#12
I was on our local trial user group for it about 2/3 years ago and other than a single conversation with a manager and a few emails pointing out the many, many, dead spots with EE haven't heard anything since.
Main thing he was talking about then was making it more mobile phone like and having an integrated battery with a separate power bank to plug it into if it goes flat on the street - although shortly after this there were various reports about the EE freebie power-packs catching fire.

As for Airwave working, I can still remember the novelty of having two radios - the old Pye set with the remote worn at a rakish angle on your chest and radio in your nice leather belt pouch (where you'd be better off with your whistle) and shiny new Airwave set (as it wasn't officially in use) where you could actually speak to people.
It did cost us local control rooms with staff who knew the area (and often the callers) so jobs were filtered out/passed out as punishment and control went to HQ - where everything got passed out.

Coverage was fantastic, dead spots were a few and far between and they were well known by all officers. Now it's pretty clear that as the system is obsolete its not getting anything more than basic maintenance, dead spots are frequent and in rural areas having a red light is the norm along with conversations with Norman Collier.
 
#13
I was on our local trial user group for it about 2/3 years ago and other than a single conversation with a manager and a few emails pointing out the many, many, dead spots with EE haven't heard anything since.
Main thing he was talking about then was making it more mobile phone like and having an integrated battery with a separate power bank to plug it into if it goes flat on the street - although shortly after this there were various reports about the EE freebie power-packs catching fire.

As for Airwave working, I can still remember the novelty of having two radios - the old Pye set with the remote worn at a rakish angle on your chest and radio in your nice leather belt pouch (where you'd be better off with your whistle) and shiny new Airwave set (as it wasn't officially in use) where you could actually speak to people.
It did cost us local control rooms with staff who knew the area (and often the callers) so jobs were filtered out/passed out as punishment and control went to HQ - where everything got passed out.

Coverage was fantastic, dead spots were a few and far between and they were well known by all officers. Now it's pretty clear that as the system is obsolete its not getting anything more than basic maintenance, dead spots are frequent and in rural areas having a red light is the norm along with conversations with Norman Collier.
Dead spots were duly noted when MOD moved from Vodafone to EE for its mobile contract, hence a lot of units retaining Vodafone mobiles in some of the more rural locations. However, that's voice not data, and it's possibly naive to expect city like data coverage in the country.
 
#14
I patrol a remote mountainous area, our coverage on airwave is pretty good the majority of the time. It only gets hit and miss in heavy rain and low cloud.
 
#15
I was on our local trial user group for it about 2/3 years ago and other than a single conversation with a manager and a few emails pointing out the many, many, dead spots with EE haven't heard anything since.
Main thing he was talking about then was making it more mobile phone like and having an integrated battery with a separate power bank to plug it into if it goes flat on the street - although shortly after this there were various reports about the EE freebie power-packs catching fire.

As for Airwave working, I can still remember the novelty of having two radios - the old Pye set with the remote worn at a rakish angle on your chest and radio in your nice leather belt pouch (where you'd be better off with your whistle) and shiny new Airwave set (as it wasn't officially in use) where you could actually speak to people.
It did cost us local control rooms with staff who knew the area (and often the callers) so jobs were filtered out/passed out as punishment and control went to HQ - where everything got passed out.

Coverage was fantastic, dead spots were a few and far between and they were well known by all officers. Now it's pretty clear that as the system is obsolete its not getting anything more than basic maintenance, dead spots are frequent and in rural areas having a red light is the norm along with conversations with Norman Collier.
Agree and endorse entirely
 
#16
BT bought EE, a merger of T-Mobile UK and Orange. T-Mobile UK was in an alliance with 3UK to share sites, towers, power, and sometimes even the radios, known as MBNL (Mobile Broadband Network Ltd). The network BT owns is the T-Mo interest in MBNL plus Orange UK. In the early 2ks 3UK's engineering boss Phil Sheppard put through a huge expansion build adding about 15,000 new sites and a lot more fibre optic capacity gearing up for 4G.

At the time Deutsche Telekom thought its foreign investments were a waste of space and so they sold T-Mo UK to Orange, which also wanted shot, hence creation of EE as a joint venture with a view to finding a buyer. That took longer than expected. EE wasn't sold by the time it started building the 4G net, they turned out to have an advantage because of having so much 1800MHz spectrum even after OFCOM made them sell a chunk to 3UK. T-Mo as was and 3UK both concentrated on getting data capacity in the cities and suburbs, where the money was. I remember EE people saying that Orange had done hardly any investment since the original "the future's bright" glory days and only the MBNL assets were useful. BT buys it.

Meanwhile, the old BT Cellnet assets ended up in O2 and O2 formed its own alliance with Vodafone UK ("Project Cornerstone") that shares rather less stuff (no radios or active electronics, just sites and power). The two parties agreed to cut the country down the middle and concentrate each on one side, while competing in 4G only in the cities. O2 and VF, the original two carriers, both have better coverage out of town than the MBNL team and together they have much better. They're also rolling in low-band spectrum.

Why the HO chose to go with BT/EE...search me, although I suspect BT/EE lowballed the price and appealed to the idea that competition means giving it to the other lot.
 

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