air to air refueling

#1
heres one for the aviation minded amongst us, could you do air to air refueling with one of these? I know the yanks refuel some of their heli's with Herc's so it could keep up with a Herc... She is a lovely aircraft its just the range sometimes lets her down even with Long range tanks her range is only just under 1400 nm

The other option is to cut the number of passengers down and have external tanks desgined but have not run that one passed the caa yet

Regards

Duncan
 

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#4
Yep this ought to go over there and the more experienced will probably tell you not to be silly ;)
Theoretically, if you had free rein to mod the aircraft then there's no reason you couldn't fit it with a probe and drogue system. External tanks would be more sensible as you wouldn't need to procure a tanker to hang around waiting for you.
Even easier would be to fill part of the cabin with a bladder and carry more in there.

In the early days people even successfully passed jerrycans of fuel from one aircraft to another or from a truck to the aircraft in order to increase range.
Google is your friend, there's lots of interesting stuff out there.

edit cos icant spill
 
#5
There was one case where US Army Air Corps types just dropped a hose down from one airplane to another. Back in the open cockpit days.

NTM
 

qman

War Hero
#6
Jesus Wept! the Health and Safety implications of these sort of activities are just huge. Pilots passing hoses between aircraft? Lowering J/Cans? I bet they were all untrained. Who was responsible for establishing a safe system of work? I bet there wasn't an AP Pet in sight. No Haz Register? No PPE being worn. No Polution Plan in place. No designated Polution Control Officer. What Quality checks were carried out prior to the refuelling taking place? This is a disgrace and makes a mockery of JSP 317
 
#7
Thought Jerricans were a one for one swap


Editing because Qman is being an A***e
 
#8
The technical ballaches aside- of which there are so many that I honestly don't know where to begin- probably the greatest safety hazard is that your average light twin pilot is not going to be trained in formation flying, let alone AAR.

Dunc, it would be far better for all concerned (presuming you do want to kill yourself) if you just took a trip down to Beachy Head. That was we would be spared any more bone threads from you.
 

qman

War Hero
#9
A safer option would be to lower a Pet Op out the back of a Herc (carrying underslung APFC's and a Hamworthy 50gpm pump) on a super strop (150metres long). That way the operation could be supervised from start to finish and a trained operator would be on site should the worst happen. I'm gonna knock up a quick Risk Assessment and should have it on the CAA's desk by mid day. ..........RLC......crunch crunch...... Be a Pest!
 
#10
Qman

surely this would have to be two Pet Ops, Class three needs to be supervised at all times.

And remember two pumps are needed, better to be safe than sorry.
 
#11
Alternately how much cross country pipeline have we got??
 
#12
70 km by all accounts. Problem with pipelines is that we will have to invite 516/ 517 STRE and then there will be all that rubbish about OXO charts and TOP's. You know very well that the Hydraulic profile would be a nightmare and the equations for head requirements would be horrendous........hang on a sec.......no got that wrong there buddy. We could do it by gravity. The line fill is 1287.143865 cubic metres for a 70km stretch of 6 inch. Thats gonna put a pressure of approx 1300 tonnes at the pipe head so I reckon we'll need a gate valve somewhere in the system. Underrunning would be a piece of cake. That's it it's a goer!
 
#13
So a Pet Op at each end and one to walk the line, The manpower for this job is getting out of hand.
 
#14
Fly the line! How could he walk? None of the TO's on the current 3's cse contain KLP's including wing walking or indeed line walking at height. Besides the Working @ Height regs probably require us to have a huge bouncy castle on hand just in case!
 
#15
Qman
I wholeheartedly concur with your last statement

Working at height will also require a hand rail and non slip steps.
I know a certain WO who can help us any regulations we may need,
Perhaps a check valve as well, incorporated in the line so we can keep the line commisioned at all times therefore cutting down on the amount of time the operation takes. Less time on the individual Ops means more Flights refuelled per shift.
 
#16
I think a bigger plane will be a better idea, doubt the RAF or the USAF would let me refuel off one of their aircraft anyway....... Russians might for the right money but that would be to complicated anyway lol.......... glad to see you lot still have a great sense of humour


Duncan

Wonder though if there is a world record for the longest flight in something like that?????
 
#17
qman said:
70 km by all accounts. Problem with pipelines is that we will have to invite 516/ 517 STRE and then there will be all that rubbish about OXO charts and TOP's. You know very well that the Hydraulic profile would be a nightmare and the equations for head requirements would be horrendous........hang on a sec.......no got that wrong there buddy. We could do it by gravity. The line fill is 1287.143865 cubic metres for a 70km stretch of 6 inch. Thats gonna put a pressure of approx 1300 tonnes at the pipe head so I reckon we'll need a gate valve somewhere in the system. Underrunning would be a piece of cake. That's it it's a goer!
Its all getting a bit out out of hand and unwieldy now. See this is what happens when you get Army Pet Ops involved with aviation fuel.

What you want to do is get on the line to TSW Ops and the job will be done before you put the phone down, no fuss, no bother.

:wink:

BTW 'qman', have you ever been on an Ex Thirsty Flamingo? We may have crossed paths.
 
#18
ok who or what are TSW ops????
 
#20
Dunc0936 said:
ok who or what are TSW ops????
The Tactical Supply Wing (Tiswas) were the only crabs apart from rock apes who used to wear green, due to things kicking off since I left HMF I suspect they aren't the only ones anymore.
 

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