aiming and marksman skills

Discussion in 'Military History and Militaria' started by semper, Feb 5, 2006.

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  1. any tips on improving my aim, i seem to be shite at it, seems im not a natural marksman so need to be trained or at least til i find something that works for me.
    i tried the official aiming position right leg bent, left leg straight , rifle in line with the body , all im getting is a sore back and neck due to muscle strain, arrgh ! i can hit the black sometimes but mostly hit the white.

    im open to any advice and what you all tried and tested for yourself , i will do any till i find the ones that works for me.
  2. tis simple….. there are FOUR MARKSMANSHIP PRINCIPLES

    the position and hold must be firm enough to support the weapon

    the sight alignment i.e. aiming must be correct

    the weapon must point naturally at the target without excessive pressure

    the shot must be released and followed through without disturbing the position

    well fcuk me... been many, many years since that was drummed into my head... and they say we are institutionalised and brainwashed.... mmllaarrr

    enjoy.... and don't forget your breathing

    the other one to try is get completely hammered as a fatherless the night before so you make every single shot count as the hangover is too much to cope with.... worked for us in senilarger.... deffo teh worst larger in the world!
  3. Pomp answer is technically right for making an average joe and average shot, ie enough to pass an APWT or gain a first time hit on target at 300 etc.

    To fine tune, I find the most important thing is to be comfortable in your firing position, whatever variation that takes. I personally have both legs outstretched and have never been a fan of the 3/4 prone position. My golden rule is leaving my left elbow perfectly still throughout the detail. Take time to bed your elbow in and make it comfortable.

    Eye relief is another major factor and ensure you concentrate and focus on the foresight.

    You can't 'Dry fire' enough, you'll know in enough time and through constant prctise where your shot will fall after squeezing the trigger. Experience will tell you whether you hit the 9, bull or v bull.

    Learn the trigger inside out, recomend using the pad of yoru finger but have also seen shots better than me use all parts of thier pinkies, again, preference.

    Breathing again I find a personal thing, I was a rapid fire pistol shot so tended to fire on the outward breath, with a rifle I breath out slightly, then hold and fire.

    I can recomend a book by Laslo Antl, granted it was pistol but many of the techniques are the same, when I dig it out I will pass on the title.

    What discipline and what sort of rifle are you shooting?
  4. full bore at mo im shooting a Winchester P14 with a bipod , im not too bad on that.

    its free floating unsupported shooting i seem to have problems with , im shooting a Saiga M3 (AK74 M copy) in .223 remington calibre, i need to get shooting with iron sights sussed.

    its getting the knack and finding what works for me, hence my request for any ideas.
    i did find both legs out ok , i didnt like the 3/4 prone either it wasn't as comfortable, hence neck and back strain.
  6. It has mostly been said but two factors that many novices get wrong is:

    Ensure you squeeze the trigger and dont pull it.

    Get basicly on target breath out get exactly on target, squeeze the trigger. do not hold breath for more than 6 seconds if you do start again. holding your breath for longer than 6 secs will reduce oxygen in your system and ultimately reduce the eficiancy of the eye.

  7. spray n pray
  8. Oh God!
    You can aim the long bang stick Thingys???!!!!
  9. I think that's part of your problem right there. The Saiga M3 is a poor choice as a target weapon IMHO. I have no experience of the .223, but you are lucky to get the 7.62x39mm version to group much better than 3 MOA. Almost any bolt action or AR15 straight pull will produce better groups. Part of the problem is the sights - the U-notch style rear sight is quite hard to use with precision. Concentrate on keeping the foresight absolutely crisp in focus and you should see an improvement.

    My other suggestion is to use the 10 round magazines rather than the 30 rounders. The big bannana mags force you to take an unaturally high prone position - not so good for stability. In general you should try to get yourself as low and stable as possible, whilst still remaining comfortable. Try and keep the front elbow directly beneath the rifle.

    Above all, try and find a position where your bone structure supports the rifle and you are comfortable. The back ache and neck strain is a sure sign that you are using muscle power rather than bone structure to support the rifle. Once you have found a stable and comfortable position, you should be able to completely relax your muscles and still be pointing at the target.

    Good luck - let us know how you get on!
  10. cheers i will try the points highlighted, Gun_nut

    keep them coming, the more ideas i get the better i chance i have of getting a good grouping.
  11. Semper,

    Which clubs do you shoot with?

    Maybe join a club like Lee Enfield Rifle Association (LERA; lots of members who are expert shots, particularly with iron sights, including many who are serving military or ex-military and who are very happy to coach - the Army method is very effective at instilling good shooting practice.
  12. If TA/Reserves get yourself on to the CMCQ Course, the one run by LONDIST by all accounts is excellent. Run over two weekends and trains you to coach others in their shot and inadvertly improves your own.

    Heard nothing but good things, so trying to get myself on it. You must have done BITS/DITS and minimum of Lance Jack.

  13. What type of iron sights are you using and are you using a sling?

    I won't mention marksmanship principles as they have been coverd, but they are essential.

    Open sight shooting relies on 1 thing. Being able to put the rifle in the same position again and again and again. Thus this means everything has to be the same, each time you pull the trigger.

    A few points - Breathing, most people suggest 3 breaths, then let out 1/2 a breath, hold it and fire. This is not good for target shooting as you can't guarentee that you have the same 1/2 breath every time. I i let all my air out as you can generally guage that more accuratly and gives you about 4 - 7 seconds to usefully fire dependant on your fitness.

    Fitness, the fitter you are the better control over your breathing you have, thus the longer the window you have to fire.

    Sight picture - if your useing proper target tights (IE circles) then make sure you have the appropriate foresight to halo the target. If your just using a blade site, then use the right corner of the blade, rather than the top of the blade. Easier for accuracy. Just using the top of the blade can give you issues with elevation.

    If your using a single point sling, you should be able to hold the rifle in your left hand, without any right hand support and not exert and muscle pressure to stay comfartable.

    Rather than move the rifle to correct your natural alignment, move your legs. Lateral movement for left and right, forward and back for up and down, your elbow is your pivot. Your natural alignment HAS to be spot on - this is where dry runs (and mentioned by MDN) are essential to get the follow through right.

    The follow through will generally indicate where you have fired. After your shot, let the rifle naturally come to rest and where it is aiming is generally where your round went. If your natural alignment is right, it should be on the bull!

    Hope some of that helps

  14. Check your Pm DevilishDave
    I need to contact you mate
  15. Try a blunderbus - fair shares for all