Aid to Africa a waste

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Acid_Tin, Jun 4, 2005.

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  1. Wordy but good...

    The utter fatuousness of the final comment pretty much sums up my disgust with this 'Government'. Giving money to Africa is like throwing pearls after swine. The problem is that you can't voice dissention on this issue without being labelled a 'racist'. I have absolutely no sympathy for the people who reside in Africa - they agitated for independence, they got it and now they can fcuking well reap what they sowed.

    I think we should integrate aid packages with a far-reaching policy of forced regime change. First stop - Zimbabwe. :D

    Full story here!
  2. Africans are unable to run Africa is the simple truth. Not one African country has become anything more than a tribal based corrupt inefficient dictatorship. Why the West should keep throwing money at these corrupt despots is beyond me.
  3. I wait with glee for someone to post about how the 'White Man' drew up borders without recognising tribal areas. Well that makes it all right then.
  4. Good call folks - good to see I'm not alone in being..err..healthily sceptical. This is an actual piece of prose from a respected South African conservationist...

    Full piece here!

    Quite apart from the fact that the sale of love birds and cockatiels is very tightly controlled (and what's a conservationist doing writing approvingly of such a practice anyway??), everyone seems to have missed the point that this article stakes around so adroitly. A rape every 25 seconds??? Are you fcuking kidding? These 'people' don't need aid - they need putting down.

    'Teach people how to care' - yuk! :evil:
  5. why can't they just let them get on with it, i thought the owrld was supposed to be an open market, let them buy the stuff they need,

    I have one gives me stuff or writes off my debts when/if I have difficulty paying
  6. Moral dilemma here. Do we sit idly by watching fellow human beings suffer or kick in the billions of pounds/dollars/euros that our politicians claim is necessary (to the detriment, some might say, our our 'own people') only to watch it being channeled to gangsters and despots? Either way we lose and sadly so do those starving innocents for whom the financial aid was intended.
    My guess is we'll continue to throw money at Africa to assuage our collective guilt at being so well fed as the unfortunate Africans starve.

    While giving financial aid is expensive, setting up and maintaining the infrastructure to administer it would be prohibitively so. For example it would include rooting out corruption, establishing some semblance of law, resurrecting transportation systems, re-establishing schools that children can attend without the fear thugs from opposing tribes will dismember them, reviving agricultural sysems etc. The list is endless, and all the while facing armed opposition from those thugs, reluctant to give up their despotic powers, who created the horrendous situation.

    In effect we'd have to (gasp!) re-colonize and that isn't going to happen, at least not by Western nations, though eventually the Chinese might have a go albeit out of self serving interests. As one who grew up in and later served in various parts of Africa and developed a lasting respect for her people I can't help thinking of them. To do nothing would be as morally corrupt as those who plunged our former colonies into the hell that exists there now.
  7. That was 10% of the polled peoples reply in the Torygragh.

    I can't see the League of African Nations leaping to Europe's aid in the near future. In another african stories Kenya is to ban smoking in all public areas. That'll sort it all then :roll:
  8. This wouldn't have happened under the empire. You can only blame white imperialism for so many generations. But, as happens in Australia, after BILLIONS down the drain, brand new housing wrecked, and heaps of wealthy lawyers, activists and politicians, the two percent of the population that is aboriginal is still living in sh@t, with poor health and hygiene, and the lowest life expectancy in the country. Money well spent I don't think.
  9. You can have a "collective guilt" if you want. I don't feel guility in any way.

    Africans feel no guilt and they are the ones letting this happen, sod them. It's about time Africa stopped blaming the White man for everything.
  10. Now, now, you lot, you obviously haven't been keeping up the prescribed daily self-flaggelation with barbed wire regime to atone for the sins of the British Empire.

    One thing lost in this debate is that Africa has in the last 30 years or so had the equivalent of three Marshall Plans doneted to it in aid, but has precicely bugger-all to show for it. As for the debt issue, how did these countries get in debt in the first place? They had the money, but it ended up back in the west via Swiss bank accounts or white elephant 'prestige' projects. I really don't see money as the answer. The best thing the west can do to help[ the ordinary African is to reduce trade tarrifs so they can sell their produce on the world markets, instead of massively subsidising our own agriculture and dumping the surpluss on world markets.

    On this issue, the Bush administration has it right and hopefully will shoot down Blair and Brown's proposals.
  11. So much effort expended on poverty, disease and all the rest of it and yet deafening silence on the one biggest problem underlying all others. Over population.

    Who's fighting that? Last week i saw another report on famine threatening Darfur, some woman was talking about how they didn't have enough food\money to live and then she mentioned her 9 kids. That's when the mental 'f**k 'em' trip switch flipped.

    i know it's not an Africa thing but a global problem yet Africa has an exploding population.

    Helping improve health and prosperity is all well and good but little if not nothing is being done about the responsibilities which go along with that. If you lower the mortality rate and increase the level of resource consumption then you have to lower the birth rate in order to accommodate that.
  12. Well maybe you lot should get your facts striaght before you go whinging about money being given to africa.

    Maybe we do give a lot in aid money but it does not even cover the amount of interest African countries have to pay back to the worlds richest countries.

    Also, when they receive aid they are forced to open up thier markets to western products such as rice and cotton. These products are heavily subsidised by western Governments meaning the western sellers can sell them for less than it costs to make them. This puts African farmers out of business meaning they can't generate money keep their families or put money back into the economy to keep the country on its feet.

    How can these countries and the people of these countries most of whom aren't corrupt politicians build up an economy and earn a living if western companies kill of the market over there and then force them to sell products at less than cost price. This happens with products such as coffee, chocolate and tea which is then sold on our market with an extortionate mark up which means we are then being ripped off too whilst fats cats pocket the difference.

    Maybe you should start reading a few more papers other than the right wing bull crap such as the sun and get yourselves a little more informed before you come out with such drivel.

    Yes maybe they do have corrupt politicians but that can't be helped in poor countries where the people can't even get an education to help them become more informed and fight for their rights, these are still pre-modernity countries (i.e like we were before the industrial revolution).

    And before you all go calling me a mad lefty, think of the long term effects this would have if we helped to sort this country out instead of throwing good money after bad. If we stop ripping them off and allow them to become good market competitors they will actually have people with money to spend, Africa is a huge country with millions of people, imagine how much they could then spend on products that we make then.

    What we do need is trade justice, we are told all of this crap by big companies (look who owns most of the papers you read, Rupert Murdoch) think about why they want us to believe it, so they can fill their own pockets. Any money give to Africa now if it is done properly and coupled with trade justice will not only relieve the suffering of millions of people but in a few years it will be money we can earn back by trading with them.
  13. Maybe again you should look to the west for this problem, it may have something to do with the Christian missionairys going around telling these people that conbtracetion was wrong and didn't work anyway. The same bullshit they still spout in parts of the states.

    On the point that the world is over populated maybe you should get your facts right. In Europe especially, we have a very low birth rate
    coupled with people living much longer, which means we don't have enough people earning money to put back into the system to pay for pensions and the NHS etc etc.
  14. I've read the posts on this forum and on the other "charidees" forum...

    I think we are definitely right to be helping Africa to stand on its own two feet using a mixture of fairer trade agreements and aid. There are a couple of reasons for this. Firstly, there is a humanitarian moral imperative. There are a lot of people living in pretty awful conditions and its only right that we should do what we can to help them. Secondly, the sh1tholes of the world are a breeding ground for terrorism which ultimately comes back to haunt us. Thirdly, it is in our economic self interest to help Africa. Once their economies develop they'll buy more stuff from us which will help our economies in the same way that the Marshall plan helped America.

    A lot of people have spoken in glowing terms about the Empire. Its true the Empire did a lot of good in terms of diffusion of technology and investment in infrastructure etc. John Master's 'Bugles and a Tiger' tells me that British involvement in India was more of a love affair than an abusive master/slave relationship and Britain can hold its head high about that part of its history. But the Empire had its downsides too had to come to an end. Ultimately, a government based thousands of miles away will not have the best interests of the people at its heart.

    Some posters have said we should just get rid of trade barriers and then leave them to it. Although, removing trade barriers/subsidies is important how can they export goods without roads/ports leading to markets? They need some aid as well to build infrastructure.

    If we play our cards right then future generations will look back and say 'yeah, Britain was a force for good in the world'... among other things it founded parliamentry democracy, abolished slavery and helped end poverty.


    ps - Some of you may notice the hand of Jeffrey Sachs in this post... I'm currently about half way through his book, 'The End of Poverty' and although he sometimes talks sh1te its a pretty good read.
  15. First to blame the nasty old whitey b*stards is jest265, seeing as you know it all and know how to put it right how come you're not out there doing good ?

    jest265 how many african countries have you been in then ? , you are a typical gobby student, been nowhere, done nothing and haven't got the T shirt.

    It seems you prefer to do this:

    Alcohol : I like to get drunk
    Bad Habits : Doing stupid things when drunk

    So f*ck off and if you must post try something other than Lefty student tree hugger sh*te.