agai of a senior rank for the actions of a private

Discussion in 'Military Discipline' started by sleeper, Dec 18, 2007.

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  1. Just suppose that the brigade you are with has banned the use of mobile phones in a certain sandy place, and the RSM decides to make a snap inspection of a certain units lines looking for a stolen christmas tree, having not found the christmas tree he turns his attention to the plethora of mobile phone chargers that are still plugged in and charging a hell of a lot of mobile phones that said brigade should not have in this certain sandy place. After a lot of discussion at a very high rank said perpetraitors of the ilicit mobile phones are let off (private soldiers) and instead the seniors in charge of these men are agai 69. The rest of the seniors and commanders are warned that any men under there command found in possetion of a mobile, that they will be disciplined as well. This is just a horrible story honestly can anyone tell me the legal or any way of protecting us as leaders of men from getting disciplined when you cant legally search a mans kit ideas please.
  2. Simple. Lead them. Thats what you get paid for.
  3. The Seniors should return the favour to their Juniors.

    And ensure the message is sent that whatever a Senior receives the Junior will more than feel the love.

    Then a snap inspection by the SNCOs. They should be able to inspect. I know they can't go through kit. Perhaps a request to the QMs for mobile phone detectors/jammers could be put in.
  4. A sad story and I guess I would feel aggrieved if I was innocent and charged for the actions of others. If, however, you knew about the phones being used in theatre then perhaps you should have a bit of a look at your leadership skills. Those rules are in place for a very good reason and the message is passed on enough times for all to know why. Sorry to say it but maybe's you've got to take one for the team
  5. Agree with Flash lead by example failing than shit flows down hill
  6. Not me thank goodness persons did not know about supposed mobiles the thing that really stings is the ones that got away with it supposedly .

  7. Supervision of the chaps would partly negate it and a large portion of threats and retribution if any fecker was caught. The NCOs should have expressed, in their own inimitable way, the orders from the Brigadier. Its fairly clear cut and the basis of getting people to do things they probably dont want to.

    Would it be that some of the seniors also still had their mobile phones so didnt chase the lads to bin theirs too? If so, its pretty shoddy leadership at that level and they only have themselves to blame when found out.

    Basics of mil command and control.
  8. We will see what the morning brings on this one it might just have shaken a few people this line that has been taken, you might be right flash in your last sentence but i think they are making a right mess of it all.
  9. I disagree we can't baby sit 24/7. If you think you can then try it are SNCOs to be punished for every failing of anyone under them? If that's the case then why aren't Pl Comds in front of the CO or CO in front of 1*?

    Quite simply if the SNCOs are gonna be AGAId then the individuals with the phones, irrespective of rank, should be charged. Let's not kid ourselves on here.

  10. What is the thinking behind the banning of mobiles anyway?
  11. Security supposedly.

    Nothing to do with squaddies running up bills in the thousands of course.

  12. one wonders how many SNCO's WO's and ocifers are now sneaking their own chargers and phones down the back of their bergan frames :) Mind you just about every officer and WO will have access to landlines that the jock wont so they dont have to worry about hanging around waiting for a phone.

    (para deleted by MOD for OPSEC)

    AGAI down hill though, if each SNCO AGAIS his Pl NCO's with the instructions that they now AGAI every jock in their charge, it will get a message through and cause the CSM and OC to get mighty fed up with the whole thing
  13. To protect families at home from not getting nuisance calls from iraq iran etc as some have been getting, personally i think its to contain any info not sanctioned by the hierachy as the last brigade had no rules on not having mobiles and i have had a mobile with no probs on two previous telics im willing to be corrected on this

  14. I can only go on what you've said but I don’t think they have.

    This is the way I see it;

    Brigade has issued an ORDER to ban mobile phones. Right or wrong, it’s still an order, not a request.

    RSM finds evidence that the order has been ignored.

    Who is immediately responsible for the offenders? JNCOs and SNCOs.

    Brigade or Regt are quite clearly not amused at this flagrant disregard for the order. They elect to punish the people who are supposedly responsible for ensuring the troops stay in line, effecting efficient military practice etc.

    The chain of command has broken down. The SNCOs who are supposed to implement the orders have clearly not been effective therefore they get punished. It’s up to them how they then 're-educate' the masses. But, prevention is better than cure so maybe they should have been more robust in the first place and done their job as non commissioned officers?

    As an aside. Would you expect Brigade to deal directly with disciplining junior ranks or would you think that the Brigade would punish the unit hierarchy? Brigade will see it as the unit not playing ball.

    This caught my eye too;

    Sort of makes a 'snap inspection' illegal then doesnt it?........if you are using Army Manual 356 - BRL Vol 3 (Barrack Room Law) of course. :roll:
    (Page 273 para 4 also states you can punch an officer within three minutes of waking up and get away with it :roll: )

    Non RMP will never be allowed to 'search', just 'inspect'. Same thing, different word.
  15. Slack drills having the chargers on display then. If the RSM can see them then so should the SNCO/JNCO's responsible for that given area. Guilty as charged.

    Plus I take it the lot were taken away since no one owned up to owning them.