AGAI 67 or full blown Summary Dealing???

Discussion in 'Military Discipline' started by Rottweiler, May 21, 2006.

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  1. Sorry, need some advice.

    Stupidly went on the lash and drank copious amounts of cocktails...anyways was 3 hours late for work - shame on me!!! Working in a tri service environment though so i am out of date with this whole new AGAI 67 thing. RAF line manager said he wanted to charge me - i told him to fill his boots, i have committed far worse crimes in my time. :D (just never been caught) He said he would be kind and give me a dirty job. Usually this constitutes covering the late shift for a week or similiar - he reckons he has a job that will take me weeks to complete!!!

    Fair enough i was late but there was others late in that morning - i just kicked the a$se out of 3 hours worth. Is the AGAI action there to deal with such actions as being late for work or if i argue against his job will it turn into a full blown summary dealing??

    Given a job thats going to take weeks i think i'd rather take the charge - just need to know where i stand before i face him on monday.

    It was a good night though so at least it was worth it
  2. Pretty sure you can't just "opt" for a charge. AGAI 67 was brought in for dealing with less serious offences that don't require the time or effort of a summary dealing. I would argue that this applies in your case.
  3. Thats what i was thinking, perhaps i didnt word it correctly, i know i cant just opt for a charge :oops: - the RAF dont understand this AGAI action. In their case if you are charged, its a major thing and affects your promotion even if it is only an OC's summary dealing. I know the AGAI is there to deal with "less serious" offences like you say, its not like i was in the cells overnight for fighting etc.

    Who hasnt been late for work through drink?? Hardly crime of the century, i've taken the bollocking on the chin like the good soldier that i am but just think his "dirty job that will take me weeks" is not justified. He thinks he has me over a barrell....his words were "surely its better than the other option i.e. the charge" I think not, its not me thats gonna have to sit and write the statement and like i said previously, i wasnt the only one late that morning.

    Ever get the feeling "one rule for one...??"
  4. I would suggest you accept the AGAI 67 route. It is an excellent tool and stops k#obs like you being charged constantly for minor offences.

    In the long run would you prefer a short menial punishment with no long term effects, or a string of charges on your conduct sheet.

    AGAI 67 is progressive and has a wide range of punishments, you sound as if you don't give a t#ss wether you are charged again (obviously you enjoy it), go for the AGAI route, as i said it is progressive and as the offences mount up it can lead to being discharged from the service.

    You have commited an offence and have been offered the easier punishment - my advice, take it on the chin - you are in the Army. You can however refuse to sign the AGAI 67 sheet and opt for more serious punishment. Charge - absent from place of duty, under the influence, section 69 etc. A week covering duties or a few hundred quid from your sky rocket! Seriously, where's the choice?

    The AGAI 67 system is fair for people commiting minor offences, but also has stricter punishments to deal with people like you a lot easier. Come back to the 'main' Army and see how the system is working. It is used constantly, every single day, and the feedback from the originator and recipient is excellent.

    From your post you strike me as being the, i don't give a s#it type go ahead and charge me, but he did it as well, it's only the 5th time i've been late this week, look at big hard me getting charged again. Well I hope he does! and the next guy and the next, until finally a CO says - Services No Longer Required!
  5. Tiffys - cracking post! :D
  6. Tiffy...give me a break please, i was merely asking a question. I have heard that the AGAI action is working quite well. I am not the "dont give a sh*te" type at all. my crime was getting caught. I am not a constant reoffender and dont have a charge sheet as long as my arm. it was a one off and have apologised profusley and got the doughnuts in.

    I was just saying he just says that i have to do this job or he is going to charge me.

    I do get and agree with what you are saying, bollockings and covering duties for a week i can handle - not a task that has been given to him that he cant be bothered to complete and will take all the credit for - big mans world yes i know so i'll just grit my teeth and get on with it. but at what point does it stop?? so far i covered the duty fri, got this extra job and he has hinted at me covering more late shifts.

    All points have been duley noted...even though i am asking the question i did laugh at your response, i do miss good old fashioned banter.
  7. Under AGAI 67 there is only certain punishments that he can deal out and they should be given and started as soon as is practical I believe. You rocking up for work Monday and being given a job that lasts weeks is not one of them.
    Extra duties is a maximum of 5 I think.

    Where I am nobody can be charged unless they have been AGAI'd for the same minor offence before. I assume it's the same elsewhere.
  8. Thank Rockdj.....much appreciated.
  9. AGAI 67 can be fair, unless your OC starts it, gets it investigated by the CO (best ever friend) and then you get stitched big time.

    Bitter and twisted and stitched
  10. <touch wood> it wont come to that - i'm just having a personality clash which i am sure can be amicabely discussed. Doesnt help that he cant understand why our promotion is faster than theirs.
    Not my fault he is at his 20 yr point and only just been promoted to Sgt and thats not me having an attitude, its just fact with the RAF. Its the long standing joke in the office but always gets him rattled.
    The joys of working tri service...
  11. From the current civvie perspective of what happens if you turn up late through alcohol abuse the night before:

    If working for a US firm:
    1st occurance: Formal written warning, sometimes mandatory attendance at AA meeting or treatment/Priory type place.
    2nd occurance: Sacked.

    If working for a UK/EU company:
    1st occurance: Formal written warning.
    2nd occurance: Final written warning and sometimes offer of treatment for your problem.
    3rd occurance: Sacked.

    You screwed up royally by being late. Always turn up on time, even if just to be seen by the boss before sloping off and sleeping until coffee break and then again until lunch. When I was late through booze (was 15 mins late), I caught 28 extras from the CO (Adjt later kindly reduced it to 15 days due to some other 'good deed' completed by me).

    As stated before, take the punishment on the chin and stop whining. Also slap yourself for putting yourself in a position where a Crab can rightly criticise you.
  12. Mate, I am having a personality clash with my OC and as a TA soldier, I am being discharged because of age. An entire stitchup with selective information being used to blacken my career. This all started with a totally illegal AGAI67, which my OC started and the CO investigated. Shame I did not know the CO was her best ever friend and that they had........... better not say any more.
    Be careful, it has finished a good career for me and I have no-one to support me.
  13. Slap given...

    everyones allowed a whinge from time to time but now ive vented it all here, got slagged and advice i feel so much better.
    All ready for the aftermath tomorrow :D
  14. You are entitled to a copy of AGAI67. Section M is good. You also have the right to an officer to act on your behalf and if you feel you are being victimised, get an officer you trust, and get EVERYTHING on paper.

    At the end of it, I took it on the chin, got a 3 month warning which passed in no time, but they , made references to the wrong disciplinary action and the CO never bothered to send the info promised. A joke from start to finish but it f***ed my career up, because I stood up for myself and told the truth. Sometimes the truth hurts and sometimes I need to keep my mouth shut and let an inept and incompetent OC carry on screwing the unit up, and just smiling happily as though nothing has happened.
  15. Bobo...sounds like you have had the extreme rough end of the deal.

    I dont think mines is anywhere near as bad as your circumstances and yes at times it feels like its easier to sit there and not say a word.
    Ill just put this one to experience and lessons learnt etc etc. He has had others walking all over him for months and im taking the brunt end of it just now.

    Never mind chin up and all that - summer is nearly here :D