AGAI 67, Controlled discipline or out of hand judgement?

Discussion in 'Military Discipline' started by Eyeball, Feb 22, 2005.

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  1. :?: AGAI 67, Controlled discipline or out of hand discipline?

    When this was first talked about i had two thoughts, it may be good for the sake of i was sick of seeing people getting chardged for stupid things like turning up late, bad dress etc etc but i also thought, is this going to get out of hand. And from wot i've seen, it seem's like it is working, on smaller fines, i think the show parades and extra duties now being alloud is good for the discipline, but then again, i've also seen the other side, the jumped up ranks who now have more power and going over the top, only the other week someone was givin two working sat's for something trivial that before that may have resulted in a light, bollicking. how long is it going to be b4 we get allegations of bullying, i think some controll should have also come with the extra discipline, for the junior ranks as much as the power craze. Any thoughts.
  2. There is control and it is in place already. If the guilty party does think it fair he can appeal.

    The SSM should be reviewing all awards to ensure that the award fits the crime. This would also allow him to:

    a. See who the prominent guilty parties are - perhaps they need a good talk from a senior rank.

    b. Educate the JNCOs (and SNCOs if necessary) if the awards are outweighing the crime.

    Remember, this is early days yet. It takes time for a system to settle and takes time for an individual to get used to the power he now holds.

    You are not all born leaders - I am, but then I was always an exception!
  3. smurph try reading the many pages of this forum as there are ample links to discussion on AGIA 67.

    Next time youll get a show parade.

  4. "THE RSM HAS SPOKEN" :lol:
  5. Surely to goodness that must be worth a Regimental Work Period....... them brasses need doing (all for the good and benifit of the glorious Corps!) :lol: :lol:
  6. i think a good dose of having to clean and sweep etc on dinner and naafi breaks might shame individuals into not committing lesser crimes. Their mates mocking them and unknowns looking down on them may make the guilty parties think twice about side-stepping the regs or at least make them remember what happened the last time they did! Obviously more serious matters can be dealt with in force but shame and red cheeks (face) is always a good deterrent! what ever happened to good old punishment that wasnt ******* winged about.... oh yeah we started taking in civi streets rubbish who think they're owed something!
  7. daz

    daz LE


    Try not to get caught next time :p :p :p :p :p :p

  8. was this you by any chance. :p

    If whoever feels the punishment is unfair then they have a right to appeal. Appeal is not just to get the punishment overturned but can also be used to have it reduced. If this person thought this then they should have said something when they got told and offered the chance to appeal. By not doing so you say the punishment is fair so stop complaining about it.

    The fact of power crazed JNCO's shouldnt be a problem because i'm certain all AGAI 67 action still goes through some sort of chain of command not just straight from power crazed Cpl to the bin, sorry admin office.
  9. Just my tuppence worth.

    From what I can tell it is being controlled. Only NCO's from the wrongdoers chain of command can issue punishment. And, as has already been mentioned, the guilty can appeal the punisment with the SSM or similar looking over all punishments.

    As I was briefed recently, I can't actually hand out AGAI67 punishments to soldiers not under me although I can initiate them by speaking to an NCO in their chain of command. This NCO will know the soldier better than I, so may be in a position to decide that he warrents a ticking off, if he has some personal issues, or he warrents a good rifting, if he is a frequent flyer.

    Surely it's very controlled.

    Any chance of elaborating on the crime smurph15? Or are you still bitter? :twisted:
  10. I understand that bringing in this is going to make things better, and i am up for this as this will sort out the slackers from the workers, but i have taken in both accounts, from the pte's to the seniors, and as you say there is a chance to complain about the punishment, but in experiences i have seen some complaints have just been shrugged off. This system is new and seems to be working, with time i think this will get better.
  11. AGAI is a dangerous weapon in the hands of inberciels look at this example i witnessed recently at 102 mock bde cpl 'arckwright' L@@@@NCE tasked Lpl xxxxx to fp a ffr. this was in turned passed to a few siggies to square as it wase a fast ball. wagon deployed next day however the fuel guage was just under full Cpl L@@@@@ce decides that first parade wasnt done correctly AGAI's driver from previous day the Lcpl and wanted the FIVE siggies done as well at total of 7 AGAI's for a waggon missing a cup full of dieso MOCKABLE!!!
  12. You are going to get muppets that havent got a clue how to manage people wherever you go, tis a sad fact that some of these people are allowed to actually think for themselves in that situation.

    However the safeguard of the SNCO's in that particular chain of command, and also the SSM as the reviewing officer, should in theory see it sorted.

    And i would say that the above mentioned NCO would also need some sort of talk from a SNCO on how to actually deal with discipline on a case by case and fair basis, it would appear that the people above him arent actually showing leadership skills worthy of learning from ;)

    Initially AGAI 67 is a worthwhile tool, it gets rid of mountains of paperwork and deals out a fair punishment for minor offences, it also gives you an auditable trail in which to keep track on someone's conduct throughout the year, and again its a worthwhile reference when writing a 6 monthly or even the CR.

    And if you read the book to the letter, the person actually pinging an individual for AGAI 67 action can ask for a punishment to be given, they inform a SNCO in the offender's chain of command and the SNCO should discuss it with the person reporting it.

    If the person who reported the offence is not happy with the decision that the SNCO takes in awarding a punishment, they themselves can ask for it to be reviewed too i am led to believe, this ensures that the SSM is a point of contact for all matters with regards to the punishment and it also ensures that the system works for everyone and is not open to favouritism towards anyone.

    A good system in theory, and if used correctly a valuable tool for JNCO's to give them some authority back on the vehicle park, when lets face it, there seems to be less and less of it about.

    However a valid point was raised when it was first introduced, and that was how could you expect JNCO's in this day and age, who have to share accomodation and in most cases arent really given any position of importance other than detachment commanders, to deal with individuals from their own troop and Sqn???

    Rightly or wrongly it did highlight that there is a feeling of reluctance amongst JNCO's to use it against anyone they got on with, especially when they are expected to then socialise or live amongst them in the block.


    Only time will tell i suppose, and the proof of it will be next year once its been in 12 months to see how empty the coffers have gotten since the summary dealings have lessened :D
  13. AGAI 67 is a load of b****cks. My Unit 3*Pigs. Singlies block inspection. one block fails, Rubbish overflowing from bins. Every singly on parade, SSM "I need volanteers for the Sgts mess summer ball, or we can go down the agai 67 route". Not enough volenteers. "ouside SSM's office "I still need volanteers for the Sgts mess summer ball, or i will agai 67 you". 3 more volentold and ssm drops the agai action. Glad I'm getting posted
  14. So it boils down to the nasty SSM threatening AGAI action?

    I take it the singlies who could not even clean their own living spaces are not to blame, or the LCpls and Cpls who can't bring themselves to ORDER their subbordinates to complete the block jobs.

    Look closer to home young Jedi, find the force and use it wisely. Alternatively, turn to the right, fall out and get the fcuk out of the army.

    Are you sure you are not RAF?
  15. In order for JNCO's to be guided by their SNCO's, the Army would need Senior NCO's who have the experience to do so, At the point where I became civilian there were a lot of SNCO's who were IMHO not fit to do this as most of them had been promoted far too fast, without gaining any leadership skills, to fill vacancies.

    In the same breath there are some excellent SNCO's out there who more than deserve their seat in the WO's & Sgt's mess.