Agai 67 and leave

#1
can block leave already authorized be stopped for discipline action ?

the situation
at about half an hour before due to leave camp for 3 weeks summer leave
all living in male junior ranks were told that they were not going on leave till monday and were having the block inspected numerous time over the weekend. there was no agai 67 paperwork signed by any soldier nor was any paperwork for amendment to leave. every soldier forced to stay behind (as 2 were let off) had things arranged e.g. stag do, birthday parties(there own), engagement parties, work. all this was because the WSM had walked around the block and found a couple of peoples rooms unlocked and in the middle of packing for 3 weeks away and was not happy with the state of rooms when no one was ready to go yet. what course of action do we have and was this even right that this happened?

please advise
 
#2
2 points really:

Were leave passes already authorised?
If so, Block inspections is hardly "operational reasons"

Also,

Mass punishment is HIGHLY illegal. Should someone really have the balls to challenge him they could and get him in a lot of poo. But I doubt they will.
 
#4
Im sure they were crying into their Mochachocas in an M1 service station ! It would have been excellent forethought however for one of the 2 lucky tw*ts to invest in a Dukes of Hazard style horn for when 2 solitary cars pull gently off the regi carpark. :D
 
#5
jt9563 said:
2 points really:

Were leave passes already authorised?
If so, Block inspections is hardly "operational reasons"

Also,

Mass punishment is HIGHLY illegal. Should someone really have the balls to challenge him they could and get him in a lot of poo. But I doubt they will.
Well, he should be challenged. Very poor leadership, particularly in this day and age. With Op tempo being so high leave is a precious commodity. The badge should have a good long hard think about his reaction to this. Times have changed. Mass punishment is not encouraged (indeed I thought it was not allowed under the AGAY system)? I realise that discipline needs to be maintained but I am not sure this is the best way of doing it.

Is this a training regiment by any chance? I assume it must be. Surely to God (not that it makes it right).
 
#6
Collective punishment is specifically forbidden. You should raise this through the CoC. It will not help you now but will stop this form of bullying (for that is what it is) in the future. You will not be being disloyal, but will be exhibiting the moral courage that this individual's superiors are not showing in telling him not to act outside the spirit and the letter of the Code of Conduct for instructors (if this is a training unit).
 
#7
it is not a training regt its in the field army ranks ranged from cfn to cpl and the teo that were let of one had a flight on holiday the next day and the other had to family birthday partys (hardly reason to go if they would not alow one to his own stag do)
 
#8
and yes leave passes had been in for about a month and autherized apparently the 2ic signed of on this but i none of us were shown any paper work
 
#9
devexwarrior said:
Collective punishment is specifically forbidden. You should raise this through the CoC. It will not help you now but will stop this form of bullying (for that is what it is) in the future. You will not be being disloyal, but will be exhibiting the moral courage that this individual's superiors are not showing in telling him not to act outside the spirit and the letter of the Code of Conduct for instructors (if this is a training unit).
exactly. What I want to know is a; what did the JNCO's do about this punishment and the (lack of) fairness/illegality of it? Did they raise it through their chain of command?

and b; what were the Seniors doing while all this went on?

People wonder why there is a retention problem. :x
 
#10
the sinor cpl in the block took it appon him self to go and see the oldaly officer and ROS to try and get the lads home but all they did was turn around and said they will not medal in sub unit discipline and the rest of the regt had already gone for leave so there was no one else to go to
 
#11
hannjob said:
the sinor cpl in the block took it appon him self to go and see the oldaly officer and ROS to try and get the lads home but all they did was turn around and said they will not medal in sub unit discipline and the rest of the regt had already gone for leave so there was no one else to go to
Well the orderly officer, at very least, should be looking at some painful re-education and a whole lot more duties to drive the point home. And I don't know what a "ROS" is? Guessing at Regimental Orderly Sergeant?
 
#12
Depending on how far you want to take it, you can raise a formal complaint of bullying(mass-punishment). Sounds like you're at the sort of unit that would try and brush it under the carpet and keep it in house though. I'll say it again, if someone has the Balls(moral courage as someone called it) to carry this through properly, a lot of people in your Regiment/Sqn are going to be in a whole pile poop!

I would (personnaly) suggest that the proceedings be started by someone that is already signed off and has nothing to lose TBH. Seen as your SNCO's, obviously, have the best interests of you guys at heart.

P.S. The reason those people were allowed to go is becuase the punishment is ENTIRELY illegal and there is no way they would have been able to claim the money back, without your SSM/2IC being investigated.
 
#13
The guy who did this is a throbber and seems to be on a slightly different plane to the rest of us.

Put in a complaint, en masse, with full details of all the events that were lost, and what happened. Include the lads who got away with it.

Print out the Leave passes too.

This doesn't even seem like an actual authorised inspection, the WSM just minced in to some rooms. So straight away, those not living in these rooms can't be punished for "the assumption" that their rooms are untidy by association.

Was there any warning order that the WSM would be walking around?

I would actually hazard a guess that the bods in the block have more than a sufficient case to put in a complaint.
 
#14
DO NOT STAND FOR THIS!!!

Whilst there are w*nkers like this badge in the job retention will always be a mare. Just out of curiosity, who conducted the block/room inspections over the weekend?

Incidentally, this badge could find himself in a hell of a lot of trouble. Also, any and every soldier involved should pursue this. I would even suggest that every soldier involved take the action (thats a big bag o shite at his door). It doesn't need to be someone 'with nothing to lose'. Any repercussions on an individual after this would be very unwise. Get this sorry excuse for a badge sorted now before some lunatic does it on ops.
 
#15
DO NOT STAND FOR THIS!!! Calm down Wolfie f*cking Smith and stop whingeing you p*ssbags.

They lost a weekend not a cancer cure, doesnt sound like the full story to me neither, I bet the block was f*cking honking after numerous warnings.

A weekend in the block used to beat a weekend at home anyday.
 
#16
Absolutely shocking indictment of the Army. An extreme case perhaps but the attitude and thinking behind it is not. I would want to see heads rolling from the OC downwards. The Orderly Officer should have telephoned the CO at least.
 
#17
reni_77 said:
DO NOT STAND FOR THIS!!! Calm down Wolfie f*cking Smith and stop whingeing you p*ssbags.

They lost a weekend not a cancer cure, doesnt sound like the full story to me neither, I bet the block was f*cking honking after numerous warnings.

A weekend in the block used to beat a weekend at home anyday.
If it is as the poster has stated then it is wrong. Discipline is discipline, but the enforcement of it needs to adhere to strong guidelines (for very good reasons). The crime must fit the punishment. This is men’s leave - like I said Op tempo is high, time with families is important.

If it is not as seems then fine, but like I said if it is as suggested then procedures have not been adhered to (at best) and this WSM needs to consider his managerial skills (sic).

If your post is serious then you are sounding like a bit of a tosser today I must say.
 
#18
the badge wasnt even spose to be in he was on leave or a course but not spose to be at work the ROS did the sat/ sun inspections and the badge and 2ic did the monday morning on but the badge was in civies
and for the record the block was not honking and secondly the block is condemd and getting nocked down at the end of the year so that gives you an idea what state the block is in any way plus all the comunal areas are cleaned by contracters and are not our resonsabilaty
 
#19
I am thinking there is a lot more to it than being said on here, we are only getting one side of the story.
In my day if block leave was upcoming it was guarenteed that there would be block inspections before proceeding on leave.
not just the fact of messing the guys around but would you want to come back after 3 weeks and find half the blockies had left food open, crap all over festering etc.
I will guess at least block nco knew there was standards to be reached especially before the block is empty for block leave

edited after seeing above post if thats true, knobber isnt he then to stop you lot going on leave
 
#20
hannjob said:
the badge wasnt even spose to be in he was on leave or a course but not spose to be at work the ROS did the sat/ sun inspections and the badge and 2ic did the monday morning on but the badge was in civies
and for the record the block was not honking and secondly the block is condemd and getting nocked down at the end of the year so that gives you an idea what state the block is in any way plus all the comunal areas are cleaned by contracters and are not our resonsabilaty
Between you and me, I reckon the boss kept you all behind for your spelling.