AFPS 05 - Early Departure Payment Scheme

Discussion in 'Armed Forces Pension Scheme' started by nic8764, May 13, 2013.

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  1. Hi,

    I wanted to offer some advice to those of you who may have found yourselves in a similar position to me.

    I left the Army in Jan 2007 (having completed 12 years under AFPS 75). I then rejoined in Jul 2007. Soon after rejoining I requested a pension forecast from SPVA.

    Let me quote directly from that forecast:

    "The following forecast is based on an aggregation of your two separate periods of Service in the Armed Forces, twelve years in the AFPS 75 Pension Scheme and six years 67 days in the AFPS 05 scheme. It is based on your current salary of ........

    Forecasted benefits as at ..Oct 2013:

    An immediately payable Early Departure Point (EDP) payment of £.........
    An immediately payable tax free lump sum of £........

    The point here is that in 2008 I received a forecast for EDP benefits.


    This came as a bit of shock to me, because I had not realised that I was automatically part of the AFPS 05 scheme on rejoining. I sent a letter to the SPVA in a vain attempt to try and stay on the AFPS 75 scheme, but was told that unless you rejoin within 30 days of getting out you will be automatically on the AFPS 05 scheme. But the point is that I have a document which clearly states and accepts the amalgamtion

    So I was left with 2 options:

    1. Keep the 12 years accrued on the AFPS 75 as a preserved pension payable at aged 60, and have 2 separate pensions.

    2. Amalgamate this previous service with current AFPS 05 scheme.

    I went for option 2, incidentally, these options were given to me in a letter by SPVA.

    I recently requested a pension forecast (March 2013), which stated, again, that I will qualify for EDP payments. So all was well. I then sent this forecast to the Forces Pension Society, and it was only at this stage that I became aware of the 'bombshell'.

    There is a term which has 'crept' into the latest AFPS 05 Scheme Pension Booklet (issued Aug 2012) which states 'Relevant Service'. I think it is important to point out that in the version of 2007 there is only reference to 'Reckonable Service'.

    It means that all previous service in the AFPS 75 is not 'relevant' for the EDP Scheme. This has been experienced by those who have been made redundant, but not, I believe, to those who are still serving.

    As it stands I have an EED of Aug 2019, if I stay in I will have completed 24 years service and will not receive anything until the age of 65 - that age will probably increase.

    My understanding is that the EDP scheme is seperate from the AFPS 05 scheme and is guided by a Statutory Instrument No 437.

    I am sure that some responses will be 'well you should not have got out then should you' and I agree whole heartedly, however I, along with other serving personnel have definitely been misled. SPVA are claiming that it was an error, but to simply say we will send you out another forecast is totally unacceptable.

    If you find yourself in a similar position please pm me.
     
  2. There are a lot of people who find themselves in the same position due to the reinterpretation of what counts as 'relevant service' for EDP, RG and redundancy. I understand that there is a Barrister on the case (Bob Williams who is a retired RN officer) who works for Coffin Mew (Coffin Mew - Solicitors Southampton, 1000 Lakeside Portsmouth, Gosport | Employment Lawyers Southampton | Fareham). You could look into this and/or challenge the SPVA by way of IDRP.

    This situation is particularly unjust when you consider that Tranche 1 redundees had their aggregated AFPS 75 service counted for redundancy and for Tranche 2 onwards they did not.
     
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  3. So there are various agencies all too aware of how personnel have been misled, but what is being done about it? Has anybody been successful in turning this kind of decision around?
     
  4. The Internal Dispute Resolution Process is a 2 Stage internal procedure, after which individuals can take their case to the Ombudsman. It takes time and, as yet, I haven't heard of anyone who has been through all the stages.
     
  5. Hi nic

    ive just found out I'm in the same boat EED Feb 19 rejoined in 2007 after serving 12 years was on the 75 joined back on the 05. I wrote to the pension office and aggregated both parts onto the 05 scheme therefor giving me at the time 13 years on the 05. I have just found out after 18 years that under the new policy they have split my pension back into two parts so now have 12 years 75 and 6 years on the 05. Which means as you I'm not entitled to any money until 65.
     
  6. Check with them what they are saying. The decision to aggregate is yours and, having opted to join the two pensions, they should action your option so that only one pension is paid (AFPS05). Had they by some means decided to ignore your instruction you would have some of your AFPS 75 preserved pension payable at 60 and some at 65, with the AFPS 05 preserved pension being paid at age 65.

    The Resettlement Grant and EDP are not part of the pension scheme and this is where the snag occurs. The two pensions count as one for the occupational pension BUT they will not allow the old service to count as 'relevant service' for RG, EDP or redundancy.
     
  7. Hi all.

    I have found myself in the same EDP trap with 3 others in my unit alone. We all believed we would be entitled to immediate EDP payments at our 18/40 point by bad advice from the recruiters on re-joining and various JPAC queries.

    Does anyone know how to challenge this as it seems a lot of people have been mislead. I know you cannot put in a service complaint as I have tried and JSP 831 prevents you from complaining about pensions. I have never heard of the IDRP.

    I cannot believe that the Armed Forces are going to get away with this.
     
  8. Hi mate there is 7 in my unit including me and pretty much been told that after serving 24 yrs ill be left with no job, money or house as the mod changed the policy in 2012. I was told in 2010 tar I needed to aggregate my pension to get one and now been told its worthless. Feel like a bomb shell has just gone off in my career there is a solicitor in Southampton looking it. Coffin Mew - Solicitors Southampton, 1000 Lakeside Portsmouth, Gosport | Employment Lawyers Southampton | Fareham try these they may be able to help Jason
     
  9. I have also been caught out by this. Have a copy of both versions of the pension booklet and right enough the wording changes in 2012. I probably wouldn't have re-joined had I known. Done a bit of digging - service complaint is the way ahead. IDRP is a complaint about administration - it won't change any rules. Many have already gone in and I am sure there will be many more after tranch 3 is announced. I am pointing out in my service complaint and in a separate letter that they now have a duty to inform everyone affected - hopefully this will encourage more to complain which should add pressure.


    I also understand that the Forces Pension Society aren't taking this on as technically EDPs are not a pension.
     
  10. The problem for the Forces Pension Society is not that the EDP is not a pension but that the definition of 'relevant service' can be read the way they are reading it. We are, however, helping Coffin Mew with their work as we know that it was never the 'policy intent' to treat people who join AFPS 05 with preserved AFPS 75 pension in such a manner.

    The current position is that the barrister handling the case is waiting to see the outcome of the Service Complaints that have already been submitted - the hierarchy might see the injustice of what is happening and order that it be righted.
     
  11. Thank you for the response. I think we could probably spend the sum total of all our pensions on barristers arguing over the interpretation - however the most important point is what those re-joining between 2005 and 2012 believed to be the rules. Me and those in my position believed we were entitled to EDP, and it was entirely reasonable for us to assume this, as it was made clear in the following:


    AFPS 05 booklet (prior to 2012)
    Pensions calculator
    Individual SPVA forecasts
    JSP 764
    Precedence set by all those who received EDPs until 2012


    It is clear that until 2012 the MOD interpreted the rules the same as all those individuals who were re-joining. It is therefore safe to assume that anybody re-joining during this period were advised that they were entitled EDP after 18 years of service. In my opinion all those who re-joined between 2005 and 2012 were misled about their terms of service (albeit through an oversight rather than malice).


    Personally I gave up a good career with real future prospects to re-join and serve in Afghanistan. In return I had a certain expectation with regard my terms of service and above all I expected to be treated fairly. Currently the MOD has made no effort to contact those thousands of individuals affected, they have simply changed the wording in their documents.


    I assume the FPS were consulted during the introduction of AFPS 05 and also missed the issue. Now that the impact is becoming clear I hope this is an issue on which the FPS will use its influence and engage with the MOD. I know that it's a difficult legal position all round but I hope that the FPS can show support to its members and all those affected by this change by setting out its position formally in support of our case. I hope you don't take this as criticism of the FPS as I know they have done good work on behalf of all those with a service pension in the past. I just hope that it can set out its position on this issue and use it's influence with the MOD to help bring a fair outcome to this situation.

    This issue also needs to be addressed for AFPS 15.
     
  12. Hi all,New on here and a search brought me to this thread. Like others who've posted I was also a re-join. left in '05 with 8 yrs on the 75 scheme and rejoined in '07 on the '05 scheme. I aggregated both schemes in 2011, as advised only to have it confirmed today that the MoD retrospectively applied the rule changes in the Jan 12 DiN to all 75/05 scheme members.My run out is July 2023, but thanks to the changes I'll only have 14.5 years reckonable service for pension purposes! WTF. At no point was I, or other rejoiners in my unit advised of this, so what am I still here for? If I stay in I'll have to get a new career at 44! I'll get a minute EDP payment from the 2015 scheme and my deferred payments at 65 are nowhere near what I was expecting.I answered the call from the Army to get back in, leaving what was turning into a promising career and all they've done is kick us in the balls!Does anyone know if any of the service complaints have gone through? I'm really at a loss as what to do now. Stay in or cut my losses and try and forge a new career while I'm not too old?Cheers Army, reward my loyalty by screwing me over!!
     
  13. Put in a Service Complaint. The more people who do it, the more the powers that be will see it is a problem. There is a challenge brewing but that is pending the outcome of some of these Service Complaints.
     
  14. I've just been made aware of this e-petition for
    "Equal Pensions for re-joined Armed Forces Personnel" get everyone you know who it effects, family and friends to follow this link and sign it.

    http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/52778






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  15. ​I have also found out that i have been caught in this realm of uncertainty !!!! i left in 31 aug 2005 and rejoined 06 june 06, at which point i was informed i was rejoining under the same terms and conditions ???

    After 6 months of being back in checked with my RAO of what scheme i was on and found i had split service. After a phone call with SPVA my RAO told me to aggregate my service and i would be entitled to some benefit rather than nothing as i would not have completed the minimum 18 years on AFPS 05.

    After i was then promoted to Sgt in 2009 i asked SPVA for a forecast as of my ROD (Run Out Date) Oct 2017. They sent me the forecast stating i would receive an EDP Lump Sum and monthly taxable income also.

    So thinking i was squared for the future i rested on my laurels.

    I then received a tip off by someone to check my pension, as there was a change in 2012.

    I kept putting it off thinking i was ok although i wasn't !!! after receiving another forecast from SPVA which now tells me i will not get a penny until i'm 65, mightily hacked off !!!!!

    I have been told by the Armed Forces Pension Society to submit a Service complaint to which i will shortly as i will be posted back to RD.

    :evil: