Afghanistan - What did we actually gain?

Who's duty is it to give the Got a reality check?

VSO's should command the forces and advise their political masters without fear or favour.
It's a dynamic. VSOs should advise their political masters in a realistic manner - without fear or favour as you say. I believe several told the Govt of the time (both US and UK what the cost would be to succeed in Afghanistan.

It's not their job to refuse political direction because their primary aim is the selection and maintenance of the aim.

Edited to add: (or should it be Chrissynote) I believe it's a well established issue that VSOs (and Commanders at all levels) have tended to ask for resources that they 'feel the market can bear'. It's a matter of opinion as to whether you think that or pure military advice is their job.
 
Who's duty is it to give the Got a reality check?

VSO's should command the forces and advise their political masters without fear or favour.
You missed out the bit about being prepared to resign on principle if faced with arrogant eejit politicians riding roughshod over sound military advice.

On threads passim I've pointed out commonality between the behaviour of Wully Robertson in WW1 and Allanbrooke in WW2, towards their respective PMs.

There is not the slightest hint of their intelligence and moral strength in the behaviour of any CGS in this Century.
 
You appear to be arguing with yourself
. . . it's a bit early for that !

Even I'm only on my second glass of Shiraz :)
I'm in France - that's my excuse!
 
It's a dynamic. VSOs should advise their political masters in a realistic manner - without fear or favour as you say. I believe several told the Govt of the time ( US and UK what the cost would be to succeed in Afghanistan.

It's not their job to refuse political direction because their primary aim is the selection and maintenance of the aim.

Edited to add: (or should it be Chrissynote) I believe it's a well established issue that VSOs (and Commanders at all levels) have tended to ask for resources that they 'feel the market can bear'. It's a matter of opinion as to whether you think that or pure military advice is their job.
If that was the case, why did the govt sign off on it, then pull out without the offered success?

Has it even been established what 'success' in Afghanistan really is?

If so, it's never been articulated to the public.

Anyone who has even briefly read up on the place would beg to differ that 'success' is remotely realistic.
 
You didn't ask a question. You went for a sensationalist response attempting to draw parallels between a Govt directing the building of women's outreach centres in Sangin and the rounding up and murder of six million Jews.
Read the post eh?

"Secondly, could you let us all know the exalted heights of policy making that you've been inhabiting?"

You conducted a neat little ad hom on @Stonker. You've conveniently forgotten to show your own credentials when asked.

Only to be expected.
 
I see you have taken a leaf out of @Stonker s book and not being acute enough to argue with @Caecilius you are just going to insult him.
I'm sure @Caecilius doesn't need you to defend him from non-existent attacks. It wan't an insult, it was a statement of fact.
 
Read the post eh?

"Secondly, could you let us all know the exalted heights of policy making that you've been inhabiting?"

You conducted a neat little ad hom on@Stonker. You've conveniently forgotten to show your own credentials when asked.

Only to be expected.
I'm sure @Stonker doesn't need you to defend him from non-insults. It wasn't an ad hom it was a statement of fact.

I answered. MoD and Combined Joint Force Multi National HQ. At a higher level than SO2.
 
Have we left?

I'm sure some of my mates are being recycled through.
I'm not saying we don't have troops there. Op HERRICK is over, Op TORAL is just a little different.

As you all well know.
 
I answered. MoD and Combined Joint Force Multi National HQ. At a higher level than SO2.
Well you've answered - now. So you've been at least an SO1 in the MOD and some sort of MN CJTF - does that put you in a minority?
 

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