Afghanistan - What did we actually gain?

#21
Britain, in the mid-19th century, and with a large back up force of "The Empire's" Indian forces, were wiped out wholesale by the Afghans..as far as I recall from school history in the 60's. When will "we" learn.?

Referring to Britian's initial deployments specifically before it grew arms & legs:

I'm prepared to be corrected but was our more recent initial trip back not result of backing up Uncle Sam who wanted more to wipe out the massive drug trade being filtered through Europe...and finding it's way on to USA streets...but wrapped up in moral political jingo-isms? Something like 80% of European sourced heroin? I used to think it was Columbia etc who were the main sources to the USA.

For sure our son...who by nature is more than a bit cynical & A-political.......thinks we ought not to have been there and felt his job was more backing up his mates..which I guess is a view shared around a few barracks to this day.

But, he will never say ( actually he says nothing at all about his tours) that the lives lost this time were a waste. I think he has family & friends in mind...insofar there has to be a justification to all the coffins going through Brize Norton.That is another matter. That was a mind numbing experience for me even though I did not personally know any of them.Now of course, crop fields are being ripped out in favour of the poppy which are nice enough...until processed.
Back to square 1?
 
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#22
Well at least in their time in office through the conflict New Labour furnished the U.K. with some truly Churchillian defence ministers, cometh the hour cometh the man, Hoon, Reid, Browne and Blakey from on the buses.
 
#24
Britain, in the mid-19th century, and with a large back up force of "The Empire's" Indian forces, were wiped out wholesale by the Afghans..as far as I recall from school history in the 60's. When will "we" learn.?

Referring to Britian's initial deployments specifically before it grew arms & legs:

I'm prepared to be corrected but was our more recent initial trip back not result of backing up Uncle Sam who wanted more to wipe out the massive drug trade being filtered through Europe...and finding it's way on to USA streets...but wrapped up in moral political jingo-isms? Something like 80% of European sourced heroin? I used to think it was Columbia etc who were the main sources to the USA.

For sure our son...who by nature is more than a bit cynical & A-political.......thinks we ought not to have been there and felt his job was more backing up his mates..which I guess is a view shared around a few barracks to this day.

But, he will never say ( actually he says nothing at all about his tours) that the lives lost this time were a waste. I think he has family & friends in mind...insofar there has to be a justification to all the coffins going through Brize Norton.That is another matter. That was a mind numbing experience for me even though I did not personally know any of them.Now of course, crop fields are being ripped out in favour of the poppy which are nice enough...until processed.
Back to square 1?
Colombia = Cocaine
Afghanistan = Heroin
 
#26
We could have made the Afghan situation better if we hadn't gone in half heartedly (politically I mean) and with a proper plan both for sorting some things out and for improving the situation of the people in terms of education, agriculture, water supply, communications, medical services etc etc. The intervention needed at least a twenty year plan* with corresponding budgets. What we got was a politician masturbating over his ability to order the military to march up the hill and down again.

*However our politicians are limited to short term thinking and we no longer have people with the ability to see the big picture.
I muttered "Oh hell yes" reading that.
Imho that nails it, Rome wasn't built in a day and it'd take decades to build a functioning state out of that.
 
#27
So perhaps Syria next?
We came out of Eye-Rack looking weak and foolish in the eyes of our opponents and - worse - our Allies, not least the US military

We embarked on Afghanistan v2 hurriedly, with little real thought about what we needed to achieve, let alone about what might be achieved with the resources UK was prepared to make available for an operation whose objectives were never deemed sufficiently important (by government or military) to be nailed down.

We subsequently achieved everything that can be expected of an organisation led by ambitious people charged with responsibility for employing military force, in a hostile environment, with (to quote Chuck Berry) No Particular Place To Go

Result?

The next generation of senior officers who run the British Army will have 'glorious' track records of doing the wrong thing very violently, but efficiently

Our American allies will take a long time to forget Brit failure (some of them were predicting it 20 years earlier), while the Russians (and the members of any number of hostile non-state movements - violent Walts included- will likely have been encouraged by it.

At home, it will take years, and some substantial threat to the UK, to persuade a post-Brexit government of any hue, to consider upping the slice of GDP committed to Defence, much less the Army.
 
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#28
Back to the drugs.....
The Taliban had, to all intents and purposes, eradicated Afghan's Poppy harvest, pre-invasion. Offenders (Poppy farmers that didn't get the memo.) were killed dead.
It is back at record levels again...


Oh. And as we are all aware, Afghanistan became one of the most drone-surveilled and scrutinised countries in the world, back when the US was trying to reduce a massive mountain range to builders sand.
wouldn't have thought they'd manage to get a goats fart out of there, never mind a certain tall bloke and a whole world's supply of Heroin.
So who was/is it taking it all in and out of there?
 
#30
Britain, in the mid-19th century, and with a large back up force of "The Empire's" Indian forces, were wiped out wholesale by the Afghans..as far as I recall from school history in the 60's. When will "we" learn.?

Referring to Britian's initial deployments specifically before it grew arms & legs:

I'm prepared to be corrected but was our more recent initial trip back not result of backing up Uncle Sam who wanted more to wipe out the massive drug trade being filtered through Europe...and finding it's way on to USA streets...but wrapped up in moral political jingo-isms? Something like 80% of European sourced heroin? I used to think it was Columbia etc who were the main sources to the USA.

For sure our son...who by nature is more than a bit cynical & A-political.......thinks we ought not to have been there and felt his job was more backing up his mates..which I guess is a view shared around a few barracks to this day.

But, he will never say ( actually he says nothing at all about his tours) that the lives lost this time were a waste. I think he has family & friends in mind...insofar there has to be a justification to all the coffins going through Brize Norton.That is another matter. That was a mind numbing experience for me even though I did not personally know any of them.Now of course, crop fields are being ripped out in favour of the poppy which are nice enough...until processed.
Back to square 1?
Theres a good little "potted" history here: Anglo-Afghan Wars | British-Afghani history
 
#32
Who cares what we gained, I went for the craic.
 
#34
I went to Afghastlystan as a civilian demining consultant for the EU. It was a bit of an eye opener. but apart from different topography, the place was little different to Somalia and other crap-holes that I'd been to.
 
#36
Back to the drugs.....
The Taliban had, to all intents and purposes, eradicated Afghan's Poppy harvest, pre-invasion. Offenders (Poppy farmers that didn't get the memo.) were killed dead.
It is back at record levels again...


Oh. And as we are all aware, Afghanistan became one of the most drone-surveilled and scrutinised countries in the world, back when the US was trying to reduce a massive mountain range to builders sand.
wouldn't have thought they'd manage to get a goats fart out of there, never mind a certain tall bloke and a whole world's supply of Heroin.
So who was/is it taking it all in and out of there?
Take a wild guess!

(Yes the supposed "good guys" of the Afghan government, army, ,police etc)
 
#37
Take a wild guess!

(Yes the supposed "good guys" of the Afghan government, army, ,police etc)
Yup. That's one opinion. Actually, half-right might be a better description.
Someone is managing to liaise twix't whoever is moving it at the start of its journey, and whoever is providing the logistics to get it to America, here, and worldwide, AND has managed to do so all along.
 
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Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
#38
A friend's son is out there now. Not in uniform happily. He's spent three years there as a contractor,on and off. Hope he's saving like a man possessed but I'm guessing there's only so much online gambling and off duty porn anyone can do.....
 
#39
Apart from clocking up hundreds of thousands of OSM's and dishing them out to the fellas as well as a lot of bravery awards etc, what have we gained from being in that sh*t hole?

I can kind of see it inspired these dopey twats to run off to Syria and heroically fight alongside the Kurds against ISIS and supposed extremism aside from having no military experiance and entering into a dangerous state of affairs with regards to inspiring potentially more extremism against the UK and NATO allies.

It's still a poor corrupt sh*t hole and the Taliban are running amok giving the ANA and ANP hell with the limited support we've now left and billions spent on foreign aid.

It almost leaves me thinking that rather than thinking we could match them on man on man and deployed more and along with allies just totally smashed them up and foreign policy changes with regards to requiring us to PID and concentrating more on the diplomacy side, nothing worked in our favour, tomorrow some tom from Syria will do something a bit more serious and we'll all be recieving our mob orders?

So perhaps Syria next?
The question you ask in my opinion was asked very many years ago. The Afghans kicked our arises out of the country more than once. The USSR Tried to take control with massive military , they also had their arises kicked with USA help, it may be that the people of Afghanistan just want outsiders to leave them alone to sort their own problems, the Vietnamese fuckbbbed off the Stupid yanks it does not matter any more how many Atom bombs a country has , we all know a bully when we see one, and they will not be tolerated.
 
#40
Yup. That's one opinion. Actually, half-right might be a better description.
Someone is managing to liaise twix't whoever is moving it at the start of its journey, and whoever is providing the logistics to get it to America, here, and worldwide, AND has managed to do so all along.
That'll be the Pakistani Intelligence Services then.
 

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