affirmative action (racial and gender based)

#1
After a discussion with my loony left mate, this has been occupying my mind for some time.
Rather than write a long essay on this, I'll write a list:

Pros: none come to mind, let me know if you have any

Cons:
>lowering the quality of the workforce in trying to fill quotas
>condescending to people who want to get a job off their own efforts and merit
>breeds hatred as competant workers part of the inconvenient majority are rejected despite being fit for the job
>leads to second-guessing of superiors, did they get the job from the fruits of their labour, or did they tidily round off the required number?

As a civvie, I'm not sure how, if at all, the military is affected by this. But all the points made above are applicable to civilian life.

I'd like to hear some opposing views, and I realise I might be a bit blinkered by my political views, so discuss!
 
#2
I'm ferociously opposed to discrimination on grounds of race or sex and am probably a left-wing extremist by Arrse standards, but I reckon positive discrimination is bad news, mainly because it will always leave you wondering whether someone got the job on merit or because they were black/female/both and someone was ticking boxes.

The flip side of that is that procedures have to be in place to ensure that women and members of ethnic minorities don't get turned down if they are in fact the best person for a job. Or, in the military context, that they aren't disadvantaged when it comes to promotion/courses/desirable postings.
 
#3
I'm all for equality of opportunity, not equality of outcomes.

You can't end discrimination by discriminating; you can't end racism by being racist and you can't encourage community integration by segregating communities. It seems the Left do the exact opposite of everything they say.
 
#4
I believe that there should be an 'Indigenous Britons Law' that guarantees that we Indigenous Britons are put on the top of the list for Services such as the NHS, Council Housing, favoured for retention in terms of redundancy, and any attempt to deny us of our culture in order to prevent offending minorities should be punishable by imporsionment.

This is our country afterall.
 
#5
As far as I'm aware, US-Style Affirmative Action would be illegal under UK Fair Employment Legislation, as it is technically a form of discrimination, and therefore not allowed. "The best person for the job" is the spirit of said legislation.

Anyway, I only employ birds with large racks and questionable morals.
 
#6
I believe that there should be an 'Indigenous Britons Law' that guarantees that we Indigenous Britons are put on the top of the list for Services such as the NHS, Council Housing, favoured for retention in terms of redundancy, and any attempt to deny us of our culture in order to prevent offending minorities should be punishable by imporsionment.

This is our country afterall.

You really live up to your name, don't you.
 
#7
I believe that there should be an 'Indigenous Britons Law' that guarantees that we Indigenous Britons are put on the top of the list for Services such as the NHS, Council Housing, favoured for retention in terms of redundancy, and any attempt to deny us of our culture in order to prevent offending minorities should be punishable by imporsionment.

This is our country afterall.
troll. If you are serious I suggest you knock down those pills with cillit bang, you utter throbber.

as previously stated, fighting racism with racism does nothing.
 
#9
#11
Is this the record for thread deviation?

I actually wanted a discussion. I guess an outright ban on terryfukwit (apt username, as noted by many) would see him return in another cancerous form?
 
#13
Is this the record for thread deviation?

I actually wanted a discussion. I guess an outright ban on terryfukwit (apt username, as noted by many) would see him return in another cancerous form?
Tsk, tsk. Trolls are an oppressed minority. Mustn't discriminate against them. MATT 6 refers.
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer
#14
I'm ferociously opposed to discrimination on grounds of race or sex and am probably a left-wing extremist by Arrse standards, but I reckon positive discrimination is bad news, mainly because it will always leave you wondering whether someone got the job on merit or because they were black/female/both and someone was ticking boxes.

The flip side of that is that procedures have to be in place to ensure that women and members of ethnic minorities don't get turned down if they are in fact the best person for a job. Or, in the military context, that they aren't disadvantaged when it comes to promotion/courses/desirable postings.
Can't disagree with any of that, Flaggie.

In my career I've worked with just as many talented and excellent people who didn't get on because their faces didn't fit, as I have useless dimwits who claim they don't get on because of their colour/gender etc.

A classic when I was a young trainee programmer (30 years ago)

Lady of West Indian Origin to young GRB: 'You have an advantage over me. Not only do I not get on because I'm black, but because I'm a woman as well.'
Colleague of both: 'That's nonsense, you don't get on because you never finish your work on time, and it's cr@p when you do finish it.'

No quotas, but fair access to promotions, training and opportunities for everyone. It's the way to make sure the good people get to the top, whether black, white or orange, male, female or transgender, and whether or not they follow any particular religion.
 
#15
I think all jobs should be based 100% on merit.

To that end, should having to fill in one of those ethnic minority questionnaires with every job application etc. be allowed?
 

Boldnotold

LE
Book Reviewer
#16
Can't you refuse, on the grounds it's against your Human Rights?
 
#17
I work with a lad who found out about 6 weeks after getting the job that a factor in his success was his skin colour. He was not best pleased. As he put it "Discrimination is just that, getting the job because my skin colour was a factor is no different to NOT getting the job because of it, in both cases someone deserving is possibly losing out because of a decision totally irrelevant to the ability to do the job" .. I got that quote from a written statement he read out at one of our "diversity" meetings. Watching the lefty HR Director squirm as he read that was quite amusing.

And for the record, he is one of the hardest working and most competent guys I have ever had working for me. He would walk into any similiar position with ease based on his ability and attitude. I think that's what got him so riled about it.

Although it might be interesting to see how "Positive Discrimination" in the workplace would tie in with the "Equality Act", it seems to be the very opposite of Equality.
 
#18
Ignoring for a moment the degradation of the workforce quality through quota-filling, race relations have sunk thanks to this "positive" discrimination, and it's party why the BNP get any air time at all. It's ironic that a supposed equality law has made things worse for all parties involved...

I'm actually mixed race, so often there isn't a box for me to tick. I'm fresh out of secondary school, but I was offered a place at sixth form without the required grades, based solely on my Ethnic makeup. Frankly, the message seems to be "you can't do feck all on your own, so if you fill this requirement you get a free ride". That, I find, is a thousand times more offensive than a petty slur.
 
#19
I'm ferociously opposed to discrimination on grounds of race or sex and am probably a left-wing extremist by Arrse standards, but I reckon positive discrimination is bad news, mainly because it will always leave you wondering whether someone got the job on merit or because they were black/female/both and someone was ticking boxes.
Obviously, anyone who subscribes to Bold Number 1 must be extention also subscribe to Bold Number 2. Otherwise they contradict themselves.
 

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