Affirmative Action Commander in Chief?

Discussion in 'US' started by Str8Bloke, Feb 8, 2009.

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  1. I've seen Pres. Obama labelled as an Affirmative Action candidate.
    What is affirmative action? Is/Was it a real institution, or just a slur?
    Do the US armed forces practice affirmative action?
  2. Affirmative. or you could say he's a yes man
  3. I worked with a large aerospace defense company before taking an early retirement a couple of years ago. One of my peers was a woman that had retired from the Army and then went to work for the defense company. She was in her 50s and had attained the rank of Lt General. She had an admin function in the Army. I think she was in charge of all personnel matters for the Army. She was functioning as a VP of Personnel with the defense company. By the way, she was a very attractive woman, even in her 50s.

    She was one of the most incompetent people I have ever run across in my career. She messed up almost everything she did and finally the company fired her.

    I talked to her about her career in the Army and discovered she never really did much of anything. I really think she was promoted as part of an Affirmative Action program. She was rapidly promoted during the Clinton Administration, which boasted of the commitment to Affirmative Action. Either that or she screwed her way to the top. I really think it was the AA program that got her to the rank of a 3 Star General. I suspect that any of the men that attained that rank had to be smarter and more competent.
  4. Coh- Lin Powell is often sited as a man greatly favoured by the promotion Gods.
  5. Trip_Wire

    Trip_Wire RIP

    Affirmative Action:


    In the USA, especially in 'civil service' jobs it has been way over done! Where their are promotional exams people of color and/or females are taken over those who may have higher scores, etc.

    Yes, to a degree, it has been used in our armed forces; however IMO, not to the degree of the civil service and other civilian employment.

    I have particularly noticed improper usage of 'affirmative action' policies in US LE agencies. As I recall, many of your LE agencies have some of the same problems, etc.
  6. Weasley Clark even more so, but he's a honky.
  7. Affirmative Action is real and all government agencies have affirmative action officers to ensure rules are complied with. Much of the problem in law enforcement agencies came as a result of court decrees in lawsuits. In my community there was a decree that 1 out of every 3 new officers had to be minority until a certain percentage of minorities in the department was reached. A white applicant with a score of 100 or 99 out of a 100 would get in but a white applicant with about a 97 or below would not be hired when minority officers with scores as low as 72 were appointed. Fire department exam process was the same. A cousin of mine with a B.S. degree in criminal justice had to move from Massachusetts to Maine to get a police job. The odd thing is that some minority officers did get top scores but people still think they got their jobs due to affirmative action.

    I hope this helps you understand things on the septic side of the pond.

    (note: I finally understand the rhyming slang origin of the term "septic", I am now trying to think of words that rhyme with "Brit")
  8. Right, so "affirmative action" is a prettier name for "positive discrimination"?! Which in effect is the same old racial discrimination, only this time against white people which makes it OK... Racism as an official policy of a democratic state! Parapauk, isn't democracy great?

    Sorry, couldn't help it.
  9. about sh*t, that rhymes :wink:
  10. the extreme side of affirmative action might be practised in south africa now; the best group to be in is a black woman; they get hired for jobs for which they cannot do whilst at the same time, the company hires/uses 2 "advisors" to do the job for her. Then again, it was a south african woman at work who told me this, albeit in a matter of fact way.
  11. Of course Bush got the Republican candidacy on sheer merit, just as he got into Yale on the strength of his intellectual brilliance. The Good Old Boy network is just as bad as Aff Act. It's just a different and slightly more transparent form of political corruption.

    One of the many problems with the American system is that so many civil service jobs change when the administration changes; jobs go to those who are owed favours, not the most competent.
  12. Black woman, and just to be on a safe side: transsexual, lesbian, non-Christian... :D
  13. Trip_Wire

    Trip_Wire RIP

    You are wrong on civil servants, they do not lose their jobs, from administration changes here in the USA. The ones who lose their jobs are the politically appointed heads of agencies, etc.

    This was the very reason that 'civil service' was created.
  14. seaweed

    seaweed LE Book Reviewer

    David's put his finger on the button. AA degrades respect for minority people who DID achieve advancement on their own merit - since the knee-jerk reaction is 'They only got there because of AA'. Worked examples of AA in action and failing to deliver can be seen in the 'Blair Babes' whose collective track record of bigoted incompetence, and damage to our country, is plain to see - but hey, we must have wimmin Govt ministers, damn the consequences.
  15. Rosa:

    Sorry but wrong on several counts.
    Bush 43 graduated from Phillips Academy (a top independent school) and entered Yale well before his father Bush 41 entered politics. His dad was a Yale grad but being a "legacy applicant" to an Ivy is not much help (ask my son!!). At the time Bush 43 applied to Harvard Business Bush 41 was a new, junior congressman from Texas which would not help. What probably did help was that Bush 43 had worked for the family oil business. Harvard Business (and the Kennedy School of Gov't) like applicants with work experience from a variety of fields so the student body has a range of experiences to discuss. I would also note that Bush 43 had a higher grade average at Yale than John Kerry who the media portray as a genius.

    As to civil service in the US, persons in civil service jobs do not change with each administration but continue on. That is the purpose of a civil service system, to eliminate patronage. Much (but not all) of the White House staff changes and the Secretary/Under-Sect'y/Ass't Sect'y positions change as well as the top policy leadership of independant agencies usually changes . Given the size of US government, the number of presidential appointments is actually quite small.

    Appointments as Ambassadors used to be political plums but increasingly they go to career Foreign Service Officers with the exceptions of the major posts (UN, Court of St James, France) which usually go to experienced political allies.

    Just thought it might help to clarify these points