AFCS Tribunal won - Vets UK appeal

Hi All,

I have been progressing over the last few years with AFCS, and have finally been awarded the level I believed I deserved.

But, I find myself in a grey area with timings at this point onwards, with neither Vets UK, RBL or paymaster being able to assist, so I ask this knowledgable forum for you kind assistance.

Vets UK have asked for the 'reasons' for the decision of my award from the tribunals team, which was provided by the tribunals team on Tuesday 15th Oct, and Vets UK now have 42 days (6 weeks = 26th Nov) to lodge an official appeal only if law has been broken - I suspect they wont do this from what I hear.

Questions;
1) Are my suspicions correct that Vets UK probably wont appeal and go to the higher tier tribunal?

2) If they dont appeal, what's the next process, and what are the timescales?

It's the unknown that is frustrating. The appeals decision has a fixed timescale, but none if they dont.

Thanks for any help you guys can provide :)

C.
 
Hi All,

I have been progressing over the last few years with AFCS, and have finally been awarded the level I believed I deserved.

But, I find myself in a grey area with timings at this point onwards, with neither Vets UK, RBL or paymaster being able to assist, so I ask this knowledgable forum for you kind assistance.

Vets UK have asked for the 'reasons' for the decision of my award from the tribunals team, which was provided by the tribunals team on Tuesday 15th Oct, and Vets UK now have 42 days (6 weeks = 26th Nov) to lodge an official appeal only if law has been broken - I suspect they wont do this from what I hear.

Questions;
1) Are my suspicions correct that Vets UK probably wont appeal and go to the higher tier tribunal?

2) If they dont appeal, what's the next process, and what are the timescales?

It's the unknown that is frustrating. The appeals decision has a fixed timescale, but none if they dont.

Thanks for any help you guys can provide :)

C.
An appeal to the Higher Tribunal can, as you wrote, only be made if a party believes the Lower Tribunal made an error in law, rather than just disagreeing with the decision. The Tribunals know the law, so an appeal is highly unlikely.

It’s now time to sit back, satisfied, and let Veterans UK administer your award. In my experience they do this part fairly quickly because effectively the decision making aspect is all completed for them - they just have to calculate the amount and set up payment. Sit on your hands and smile.
 
Hi All,

I have been progressing over the last few years with AFCS, and have finally been awarded the level I believed I deserved.

But, I find myself in a grey area with timings at this point onwards, with neither Vets UK, RBL or paymaster being able to assist, so I ask this knowledgable forum for you kind assistance.

Vets UK have asked for the 'reasons' for the decision of my award from the tribunals team, which was provided by the tribunals team on Tuesday 15th Oct, and Vets UK now have 42 days (6 weeks = 26th Nov) to lodge an official appeal only if law has been broken - I suspect they wont do this from what I hear.

Questions;
1) Are my suspicions correct that Vets UK probably wont appeal and go to the higher tier tribunal?

2) If they dont appeal, what's the next process, and what are the timescales?

It's the unknown that is frustrating. The appeals decision has a fixed timescale, but none if they dont.

Thanks for any help you guys can provide :)

C.
Hi there, I had my tribunal on the 15th Oct also. At Edinburgh. I've been told it's a sit and wait also but I'm curious to know (if any of you lovely people know) who it is that decides the award level?? Is it the tribunal or is it back to them tight wads veterans uk?? Asking for a friend ;)
 
@Free the tribunal team decide the level with the information that was presented to them, or at least did for me. Did they not inform you of the decision on the 15th?
I had 2 tribunals, but the 1st was advising me to see a specialist medico legal. I had clear guidance/information from both tribunals.
 

Tuffty

War Hero
Hi, you will receive a letter asking for your bank details and an amount to be paid and a % of disability awarded

Takes about 4 - 6 weeks so keep checking the post
 
Hi, you will receive a letter asking for your bank details and an amount to be paid and a % of disability awarded

Takes about 4 - 6 weeks so keep checking the post

Thanks @Tuffty, it's frustrating being so close.
As advised previously, I'll sit on my hands and wait for the next correspondence. 4-6 is nothing in the grand scheme of things. Maybe it'll be a nice Christmas present.

Question;

Does anybody know if Vets UK will complete all the calculations moving me over to Tier 3 also (from Tier 1)? Or should I be proactive and nudge them?

I can't for the life of me work out how to calculate the figures (specifically GIP & Tier change together).
Move from level 13, to level 6 - 75% of earnings at discharge backdated from discharge, and then calculate Tier change too.

I guess I have to trust Vets UK in their calculations, unless anybody knows any pay wizards that can help?

Thanks again.

C.
 
Thanks @Tuffty, it's frustrating being so close.
As advised previously, I'll sit on my hands and wait for the next correspondence. 4-6 is nothing in the grand scheme of things. Maybe it'll be a nice Christmas present.

Question;

Does anybody know if Vets UK will complete all the calculations moving me over to Tier 3 also (from Tier 1)? Or should I be proactive and nudge them?

I can't for the life of me work out how to calculate the figures (specifically GIP & Tier change together).
Move from level 13, to level 6 - 75% of earnings at discharge backdated from discharge, and then calculate Tier change too.

I guess I have to trust Vets UK in their calculations, unless anybody knows any pay wizards that can help?

Thanks again.

C.
They will do it all, it should all be explained in the letter they send.
 
@Free the tribunal team decide the level with the information that was presented to them, or at least did for me. Did they not inform you of the decision on the 15th?
I had 2 tribunals, but the 1st was advising me to see a specialist medico legal. I had clear guidance/information from both tribunals.
Hi there,
At my tribunal I was just told that I had won my case. Strange huh? Thank you for you prompt reply. Makes me feel a bit better that news as I feel that the tribunal panel were very fair and understanding
 
Hi there,
At my tribunal I was just told that I had won my case. Strange huh? Thank you for you prompt reply. Makes me feel a bit better that news as I feel that the tribunal panel were very fair and understanding
They were fair and understanding with my case too. It was a breath of fresh air.
I would appear to be around 8-9 weeks ahead of you. So if you follow in my footsteps, then expect a letter in the post from the tribunals team with the 'Written reasons' somewhere around the 10th December. The written reasons will be requested by Vets UK (I did not get a copy of this request).

I hope the process goes smoothly for you. Good luck!
 

Y-R-A

Clanker
They have 42 days to appeal if in your favour
They also have to calculate back pay from the initial finalised payment they made
Just chase pension Dept after those dates have gone
 

9.414

War Hero
Hi, you will receive a letter asking for your bank details and an amount to be paid and a % of disability awarded

Takes about 4 - 6 weeks so keep checking the post
You will only be told % if it is a WPO claim, if it is a AFCS matter then there will be a Tariff item which has a set amount (at the lower levels).
 
Hello again all.
I have recieved correspondence from Vets UK, and it is all slightly confusing. Below is partially of the document I have recieved;

"The secretary of state for defence is considering making an application for leave to appeal to the upper tier tribunal (administrative appeals) against the First Tier Tribunal decision to allow my appeal".

Could anybody clarify this for me please?

Secondly, I have a timescale question.
The Judge from the AFCS chamber, ordered Vets UK to respond within 42 days from the date of letter issued. However Vets UK advise it's 42 days from when they recieved it. Who has the authority here? I thought the judge/tribunal team would have the authority here, and not Vets UK? The reason I ask, is because Vets UK are outside of the allowed timeframe of 42 days if we go by the Tribunal timeframe, but inside if we go by the Vets UK 'recieved documentation' timeframe.

If I am correct in my suspicions, that Vets UK are outside of the allowed timeframe, how do I appeal any future action - other than payment - as they are now outside of the allowed timeframe?

Thanks for any assistance on this matter guys & girls!
 

9.414

War Hero
The first part of your question is the easiest, it means they don't like the decision and are considering appealing it. They have a set time to do so and the appeal goes to the Upper Tribunal to be heard. This is the normal escalation for a WP/AFCS claim. Think in charge terms appealing from the CO's hearing to the SAC.

The timing issue will be set out in the AFCS/WP order and will be a matter for the UT to decide if it has been complied with.

If they appeal your award I think they will not pay your benefit at all until the UT rules and gives a verdict at which point it will be backdated if allowed.

Are you being advised by the RBL? They provide free advice for you on AFCS/WPP claims and appeals.
 

Y-R-A

Clanker
It's happening a lot, the saying the letters have been delayed if they haven't appealed within the first 2 weeks, they're not going to and they are just dragging it per SOP, still unsure ring them and ask for caseworker and phone pensions in Glasgow too. If they do appeal you will be sent the reasons for your award, the same as the Vets
 
Good afternoon,

I believe the 42 days rule for appeal starts from the date on the letter received from HM Courts and Tribunal services. My Tribunal was held on the 13 Nov 19 and the letter had the 20 Nov 19 stamped on the bottom. The letter should actually state the 42 days starts from that date.

In my particular case, the panel made an unanimous decision in my favour on 13 Nov 19. I called Veterans UK to get an update from my case worker yesterday and she kindly gave the admin team a prompt to retrieve the letter from the Tribunal. (time is 3 weeks so far, so half way for 42 days rule).

Point to note for your info: if there has been a significant increase with the tariff, as with mine, their SOP is to email their policy department to get approval for payment. This can obviously slow down getting your award, but still has to be done within the 42 days. Things the policy team consider (explained to me from my case worker) are as follows:

1. If they agree the Tribunal made the correct decision with the evidence they had and procedures carried out correctly.
2. Due to a large increase with tariffs, they look at the case to see if any future in house training needs to be conducted to prevent reoccurring issues.
3. To see what the tribunal teams are up to (case workers exact words)!

It then sits with AFCS policy team (am guessing legal team) to either, 1. challenge the decision by the first tier tribunal and ask for statement of facts. this then extends b beyond the 42 days rule into extra time. 2. email case worker to process payment, if the tariff has been established. 3. challenge the statement of facts further by applying to upper tier tribunal=extra time.

I should hear something within the next week and update those that are interested. Point to note though, whilst comforting to read cases progressing well, each case is unique and will therefore be viewed independently.

My representative was from Hillary Meredith Solicitors and they said it is only on rare occasions that a decision from a Judge and panel to be challenged. Has anyone on here been challenged from Lower to Upper Tribunal and if so was it still a positive outcome? I find it hard to believe a Judge would pick holes in another Judges work? thanks.
 
*snippity* . . . Has anyone on here been challenged from Lower to Upper Tribunal and if so was it still a positive outcome? I find it hard to believe a Judge would pick holes in another Judges work? thanks.

As was explained to me, highly unlikely: it (a decision) would only be challenged on a point of law-that is misinterpreting the law or a perceived disregard of a point of law.
 
How long did it take you to get your award? Thanks for the comment.

My first challenge was 2 years ago: if memory serves, I had a decision within 6 months.

I'm currently awaiting a decision on a Further Condition application: Veterans UK have said that I would have to wait up to a year for a decision to be handed down.

Sadly, there are many of us now in that position.
 
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