Advice on SGC renewal

S-mise

War Hero
Some of those who are in more regular contact with him have a record of events with a view to stopping him from driving. He’s got quite a list of road rage incidents on record now.

On one occasion he had to be revived with a tin of cola not long after he’d been driving.

I’ll give some of the lads a call and see what stage they are at.


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You do realise that even the most intense psychological examination is only valid for 48 hours? A statement written by a GP is worthless as soon as the ink dries.

The HO guidance is that a GP should only have to respond to the request if they have doubts about someone's suitability. If the police receive nothing, then it should not hinder the application. This guidance is being twisted by some of the police by them insisting that the GP respond, stating that they have no objections. Something the GPs are very much against for obvious reasons.
The police are making up their own laws which go against HO guidance and will not stand up in court.

But there's other things to consider. History of Drug abuse and mental issues, drinking problems, and other mental illnesses that might render a person unsuitable. This will show up on a GP's records.
 

Daxx

MIA
Book Reviewer
A slight thread drift, what do you do if you know of a FAC/SGC holder who is unfit to hold them?

I know a gent who is not managing his diabetes and is currently the most paranoid and aggressive person I’ve ever known. He’s also slipping into a trance like condition occasionally.

He won’t accept he’s ill. It’s the entire world apart from him who are ill. Sympathy and offers of help are thrown straight back at us with threats of violence etc.


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What FlyingFelix said and I'll add, you could speak to your Police Forces' Firearms Enquiry team; there will be details on the force website. FEO's can conduct home visits to SGC/FAC holders, although the current lockdown may affect that.
 
But there's other things to consider. History of Drug abuse and mental issues, drinking problems, and other mental illnesses that might render a person unsuitable. This will show up on a GP's records.

Which is why I wrote:

"The HO guidance is that a GP should only have to respond to the request if they have doubts about someone's suitability. "
 
Which is why I wrote:

"The HO guidance is that a GP should only have to respond to the request if they have doubts about someone's suitability. "

Trouble is a large portion of them don't respond in a timely manner. Or they won't respond if they haven't been paid (which might impact on the first point). Equally, what do you do if the GP contacts the Applicant to ask for payment, and the applicant refuses. Equally, there's the bone Ideal that quote the BMA at you and sate they are conscientious objectors.
None of these are covered in the guidance. So Cambs have taken the step of asking for that to be squared away first.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Surrey and Sussex were berated by a coroner’s court for failing to check the mental health of a renewal client who went on to commit murder
 

theinventor

War Hero
But there's other things to consider. History of Drug abuse and mental issues, drinking problems, and other mental illnesses that might render a person unsuitable. This will show up on a GP's records.
And maybe even on the right patient's records. I was at my GP for a cough and during the consultation she glanced at my notes and asked if my opioid addiction was now under control. The look on her face when I questioned if she was sure those were my notes she was typing the symptoms into...
 
Some of those who are in more regular contact with him have a record of events with a view to stopping him from driving. He’s got quite a list of road rage incidents on record now.

On one occasion he had to be revived with a tin of cola not long after he’d been driving.

I’ll give some of the lads a call and see what stage they are at.


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If he has road rage incidents where the Police were involved, they should already be aware of them on PNC and/or PND. If they weren’t involved, you’re looking at fact based evidence and of course whether you and other witnesses are prepared to give evidence in Court at a possible Appeal.

Yours may be the additional evidence required to initiate an investigation which may lead to the seizure of the firearms or revocation of the certificates. (or both).

If it does go to Appeal, these are heard before the Crown Court before a Judge and two Magistrates. Hearsay evidence can be submitted (it’s entirely up to the Bench how much credence they give it) and the decision is based ‘on the balance of probabilities’.
 
No problems in Glos. Got my SGC in the post this morning after a telephone interview. The guy knows me and my security setup and will do a face-to-face in two years when my FAC is due.
 

S-mise

War Hero
If he has road rage incidents where the Police were involved, they should already be aware of them on PNC and/or PND. If they weren’t involved, you’re looking at fact based evidence and of course whether you and other witnesses are prepared to give evidence in Court at a possible Appeal.

Yours may be the additional evidence required to initiate an investigation which may lead to the seizure of the firearms or revocation of the certificates. (or both).

If it does go to Appeal, these are heard before the Crown Court before a Judge and two Magistrates. Hearsay evidence can be submitted (it’s entirely up to the Bench how much credence they give it) and the decision is based ‘on the balance of probabilities’.

I know the police had words with him after an altercation with a householder when he was lamping close to the property and illuminating the house. He made threats etc but it couldn’t be proved. The landowner removed his right to shoot that particular piece of ground after that. And then he lost even more ground when he threatened another landowner during negotiations for the rent. He’s just got a few hundred acres left.

He’s been the subject of a social media storm too due to his erratic driving and issuing threats from his very unique sign written van....a queue of school kids waiting for a bus nearly got wiped out and then one of the parents got threatened.

There’s lots more and it’s mostly recorded. Thanks for all the advice.


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Trouble is a large portion of them don't respond in a timely manner. Or they won't respond if they haven't been paid (which might impact on the first point). Equally, what do you do if the GP contacts the Applicant to ask for payment, and the applicant refuses. Equally, there's the bone Ideal that quote the BMA at you and sate they are conscientious objectors.
None of these are covered in the guidance. So Cambs have taken the step of asking for that to be squared away first.

The GPs don't need to respond. Nor do they need paying for not responding.

They only need to respond if they believe that the person would pose a risk. To state that the GP has not brought his concerns about someone's mental well being to police because he has not been paid is ridiculous.

The issue of payment only exists when the police insist that it is required to say that the GP has no objections, and as I have already said any note that says they have no objections is not worth the paper it is printed on.

Cambridge Police are not squaring it away, they are imposing restrictions that are not in law, in the spirit of the law or in the guidance from the HO.
 

armsan612w

Clanker
Trouble is a large portion of them don't respond in a timely manner. Or they won't respond if they haven't been paid (which might impact on the first point). Equally, what do you do if the GP contacts the Applicant to ask for payment, and the applicant refuses. Equally, there's the bone Ideal that quote the BMA at you and sate they are conscientious objectors.
None of these are covered in the guidance. So Cambs have taken the step of asking for that to be squared away first.
This is as I fear, GP won’t respond in time or at all, and my licensing authority won’t even start the renewal process until the proforma is supplied. The covering letter I got yesterday also stated that Cambs, Beds and Herts Firearms licensing in now being dealt with by one team (to make efficiencies apparently) so this is going to affect quite a few in the coming months.
 
Cambridge Police are not squaring it away, they are imposing restrictions that are not in law, in the spirit of the law or in the guidance from the HO.

The aim of the Home Office, and Cambs police, I suspect, is to keep people safe to the best of their abilities.

This is as I fear, GP won’t respond in time or at all, and my licensing authority won’t even start the renewal process until the proforma is supplied. The covering letter I got yesterday also stated that Cambs, Beds and Herts Firearms licensing in now being dealt with by one team (to make efficiencies apparently) so this is going to affect quite a few in the coming months.

The BCH firearms department has been amalgamated for some two-three years now. As are most departments in the BCH area.

The BCH FLU are a very decent lot, you've got to do something spectacular to get an ARV round. Up until they introduced the requirement for a GP's report they had a process in place. If you got your Renewal in up before X (4 from memory) weeks before your renewal date they'd give you an extension to your cert on the National Firearms Licencing System to cover the renewal period. If you got the renewal in between X and your renewal date, you got a temp certificate which allowed the guns to be stored at home, but not shot. The reasoning behind this was that before X weeks you'd done your bit to give them a chance. Afterwards Ok, but you're beginning to screw them around.
If you missed your renewal date then you had to lodge the guns, there and then.

I find it unlikely they have not put in place a similar system (no idea what it is though). As you're doing yours in plenty of time (you said you just got the 12 week letter?) then I bet you'll come out golden.
If you're having trouble with contacting your GP, and you keep getting problems, Contact the FLU. They have a selection of tools they can use to help.
 

4(T)

LE
Cambridge Police are not squaring it away, they are imposing restrictions that are not in law, in the spirit of the law or in the guidance from the HO.



Given how stupid, ineffectual and impractical the whole GP nonsense is, I suspect that "the spirit of the law" is indeed to further repress and restrict civilian firearms ownership. I expect that the HO knew full well that some/many Police forces would pile on onerous conditions.


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When all this pandemic stuff recedes to manageable levels, and life can start moving to a time when we can hug someone, or even shake hands again, the bullshit morass that gun licencing laws have become .....needs addressing.

A fresh start. Involving common sense.
 
Someone should tell Cambs Constabulary that CONFIDENTIAL doesn’t exist and hasn’t since 2013. I know Police had a few years to line up their ducks on that but 7 years?

Their advice on the medical form:
Please note that applications received without the GP medical Proforma after the specified dates will be returned to you as incomplete

BMA guidance:

Suggested BMA process flow:

BASC advice:
A number of police forces in England and Wales have breached Home Office guidance by imposing mandatory GP screening for all applications for shotgun, firearm and explosives certificates.

If your grant or renewal is with any of the police forces listed in the sections below, then you will need to involve your GP as per the instructions given by your police force; and your GP may charge a fee for this service.

If you do not follow your police force’s instructions for GP involvement then your application will not proceed.

If you find yourself being let down and delayed by an unhelpful GP during the firearms licensing process, you can make use of a new dedicated BASC service to ensure a speedy resolution.

The service links members with GPs to help secure medical verification. It will assist those members who are either unhappy with being charged exorbitant fees by their own GP or those facing delays because their GP is refusing to take part in the process.

Members who are struggling to secure GP assistance should contact BASC’s dedicated firearms team on 01244 573010.
 

Hexi Bloke

Old-Salt
My SGC runs out in November, I emailed my FEO and received the following response;


Good morning Mr P***** and thank you for your email.

Due to the current climate and the situation with regards to COVID-19 we understand that Certificate holders such as yourself who are due for renewal will be experiencing difficulties with regards to obtaining a GP Report from your doctor and the completion of your renewal form at this time.

Firearms Licensing has therefore made the decision to automatically extended your certificate on expiry to cover you temporarily. Once the COVID-19 situation has settled and business returns to normal you will then be able to submit your application to us in the usual format along with the GP report from your doctor.

Once your certificate has been extended by our team you will be given a reference number by txt message or email, please use this going forward for any correspondence.

We appreciate your co-operation at this difficult time.

Please stay home and stay safe wherever possible.

Kind Regards

 

PhotEx

On ROPS
On ROPs
Ahh, so you're happy with dangerous/unsuitable types with access to deadly weapons then? A curious approach.

uh no, what this is about is the Police trying to offload their job to the GP’s.

well Dibble, why did you grant Delbert Nutter an FAC?

GO’s fault m’lud, he didn’t tell us Delbert Nutter was a nutter.

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PhotEx

On ROPS
On ROPs
Given how stupid, ineffectual and impractical the whole GP nonsense is, I suspect that "the spirit of the law" is indeed to further repress and restrict civilian firearms ownership. I expect that the HO knew full well that some/many Police forces would pile on onerous conditions.


.

it’s rather blatantly obvious the Police hoped GPs would go along with their little game and err overwhelmingly on the side of caution and nix lots of applicants.
 
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