Adult/cadet training parity

#2
papegojan said:
Just a question to satisfy my curiosity. What level of training for new CFAV's is the equivalent to 4star? I have heard some say ITC some AI and some KGVI. Does anyone know?
Look at it this way...if you think 4 Star is equal to writing RASP's and EASP's and setting up pryotechnics etc as you do on your KGVI...work it out...if anything..ITC
 
#3
The SCIC (part of 4 star (?)) has similarities with both the AITC and the AI course KGVI doesnt have a Cadet comparision as such, but then the Master Cadet and Cadet Leadership Courses dont have an adult comaprision.
 
#7
for most part our training is up to 2 star and part 3 star, the rest is done by the regular Soldiers of the Cadet Training Team and Frimley.

the main part of our training is MOI, our aim is to transfer knowledge in a way that the Cadets can absorb it without being overloaded and recognise Cadets that need extra help.

if you have been a master cadet etc whatever , great you got the knowledge, being taught is a bit different from teaching, all ex Cadets have to go through an basic AI course and ITC.
 
#9
schoolstaffinstructor said:
4 star or MC can be exempt from ITC if Comdt sign's you off
All adults should do ITC if ex reg senior ranks have to do it then I am sure a 4 Star cadet should (the only exemption I have seen is a Senior rank leaving a CTT and becoming an AI)

And as for the equivalence of cadet and adult courses, then the only equivalence is the content, I have yet to see a cadet of any qualification sign off on other cadets training let alone plan that training in a coherent manner so as to deliver cadets to the next camp or assessment day having been trained to the required level.

Neither have I seen cadets of any qualification level take on Loco Parentis for other cadets (although I concede that it is the appointment as AI that allows this not qualification).

Zippy483
 
#10
I'm in total agreement with zippy on this one.

Content maybe similar but that's all.

As for 4 Star/MC not doing ITC, they're sometimes the ones that need it the most. Alot of them still need to grow up and mature.

Having said that, I think most of us still need the growing up part. Some of the petty arguements between staff are worse than cadets.
 
#11
zippy483 said:
schoolstaffinstructor said:
4 star or MC can be exempt from ITC if Comdt sign's you off
All adults should do ITC if ex reg senior ranks have to do it then I am sure a 4 Star cadet should (the only exemption I have seen is a Senior rank leaving a CTT and becoming an AI)

And as for the equivalence of cadet and adult courses, then the only equivalence is the content, I have yet to see a cadet of any qualification sign off on other cadets training let alone plan that training in a coherent manner so as to deliver cadets to the next camp or assessment day having been trained to the required level.

Neither have I seen cadets of any qualification level take on Loco Parentis for other cadets (although I concede that it is the appointment as AI that allows this not qualification).

Zippy483
A cadet who has passed FAW and SCIC can sign off YLS+ and LS+ quals (or whatever they're being called now) for other cadets.
 
#15
static-line-pimp said:
commandant excempted me ...........not really 100 % on guidlines I think they vary county to county.......
lots of Counties do vary a LOT in how they do things, its down to who is charge and how they like to play it.
 
#17
The main problem is the ACF assume that because that you are a Ex Reg/TA that you are an instructor, it used to be that you had to be Sgt or above with the minimum of 10yers service and now it seems that as long as you have done any mil service. In the same coy as me we have a ex reg join who according to him has done everything and been everywhere in the 4 years he was in and was still only a "private". What a Walt, but because he has served he was excempt his ITC and putting it politely he is crap.

barrym
 
#18
I believe that everone should do ITC, AI's and KGVI. I have done all 3 and have found that not all you learn comes frome the CTT or staff. Most of the 'tips' and lessons learnt from experience come from the other students and not staff. Chatting at coffee breaks or in the mess on a night time is often where little hints and tips come from. I have found these just as useful as the content being tought on the course.

Everyone can add to these discussions from cadet RSMs to newbies.

Learn from your mistakes better still learn from someone elses.

ITC, AI and KGVI have a syllabus to teach you and they do it extremely well. You learn lots more besides, make friends and learn life skills. Everyone can contribute and gain from these discussions.

One of my major gripes is however is how my county and or company seem to use it as a bar or reason to 'drop you in at the deep end'. By that I mean one of my detachment staff recently did their ITC. I am a shift worker and only at my detachment 50% of the time because of my shift routine. I have 2 staff 1 CSGT and 1 PI (now SGT). If for what ever reason the CSGT couldn't make it one evening (the same evening I'm at work) Coy HQ would send over anther AI to assist. After they had completed their ITC it was suddenly OK for the same person to open up the detachment, run the training, then lock up. The ITC did not teach them how to do this or what to do in the event of 20 cadets turning up, local thuggery hanging about the deatchment, 5 new recruits and the Cdt Sgt not turning up. The others on the course helped them (and me) with ideas on what to do.

Likewise capable people have had said to them "You can not guard these LSW's havn't done your AIs course" by that I mean supervise unattended weapons while the squad instructor goes off for lunch or a pee.
 
#19
Day 1. Them - "You're not allowed to do xxxxxx, it's against the rules/red book/etc"
Me - "Ok"

Day 2. Them - "Can you do xxxxxx"
Me - "Thought that was aginst the rules"
Them - "Well we're short of adult staff today, it'll be alright"

Isn't that how it usually works?
 
#20
avtur said:
Likewise capable people have had said to them "You can not guard these LSW's havn't done your AIs course" by that I mean supervise unattended weapons while the squad instructor goes off for lunch or a pee.
How absolutely true that is.

Day 1. Them - "You can not guard these LSW's as you haven't done your AIs course"
Me - "Ok"

Day 2. Them - "Can you teach LSW to these cadets next lesson"
Me - "But I've not done my AI course and yesterday you said...."
Them - "Yes but you were in the army and used to train other soldiers how to use an LSW"

Isn't that how it usually works?
 
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