ADSC; is it working?

#1
I think so, the number of thick fat knackers sent to RTC* has diminished hugely.




* students; thick fat knacker DS still made welcome, I'm glad to say.
 

RP578

LE
Book Reviewer
#2
The quick and easy answer to that is, yes it is. The mile and half run alone cuts out the time wasters (or indeed focuses and motivates those that fail on their first attempt, but have the balls to try again). It also serves as an eye opener for the type of person who beforehand would have decided that the Army isn't for them during their first couple of weekends. If nothing else it saves on all the fuckaround with wasted kit issue.

A more involved answer would be; yes it is, but it could work even better. So far we're using the bog standard pass mark for all arms and services (see discussion on 1.5 mile thread). Candidates should be made aware of, and judged on, the times for their chosen arm. The one big draw back to this is training guys up before we send them down to ADSC. How do we get our candidates up to speed? We can't take them for Phys as they are civilians and aren't covered insurance-wise for us to take them on PT sessions.

Well it seems that the ACIOs have 'fitness clubs' which are run by PTIs who have an all important civilian qualification from UK Athletics, that allows them to take members of the public for PT sessions. The ACIOs get their PRs on these fitness clubs to help train them up a bit for selection and apparently are more than happy for TA candidates to join in.
 
#3
If ADSC is working why were their people in my cadre at 4 Div RTC who were struggling with PFT requirements on weekend 6? (and had been since weekend 1)
 
#5
wobbler said:
If ADSC is working why were their people in my cadre at 4 Div RTC who were struggling with PFT requirements on weekend 6? (and had been since weekend 1)
Because It's cold outside and they lack the back bone to get some tarmac under foot.

ADSC Can't make them keep their phys up once they've passed, only the recruit can.
 
#6
Theres alot of west indian chavvy rudeboy twats at my TAC, I wish adsc would filter these ******* out but I know we cant have everything.
 
#7
wobbler said:
If ADSC is working why were their people in my cadre at 4 Div RTC who were struggling with PFT requirements on weekend 6? (and had been since weekend 1)
Bottom line is they shouldn't be doing a PFT until well after they have completed CIC (or special to arm). Like it or not those are the rules. If you have in fact got your terminology wrong, and you are referring to the RRR (Risk Reduction Run) and not the PFT. Then, you have cause to moan. They really should be passing this within the 14 mins for other Arms or 13 mins for Inf. If they are not, they are not permitted to continue onto the next phase of training, and need to return to the RTC until they do pass.

In answer to the original question, ADSC is working. But RTC's now need to see some selection standards, i.e. time's wieghts and numbers fo the PSSR. score for the BARB, how do the training team decide whether an individual meets a required standard when there has been no required standard laid down across the TA?
 
#8
RP578 said:
The one big draw back to this is training guys up before we send them down to ADSC. How do we get our candidates up to speed? We can't take them for Phys as they are civilians and aren't covered insurance-wise for us to take them on PT sessions.
That can't be a huge problem; when I was in the process of joining the RMR, we had phys at the unit every drill night. All we had to do was sign a waiver/insurance form (I dunno precisely what it was, didn't read it), and were free to be beasted by the PTI, sometimes by ourselves, sometimes with the Phase 1 nods. I can't see why the TA couldn't do the same thing.
 
#9
A few thoughts 1) Not all brigades are Passing/Failing at ADSC leaving it to the units to decide which they don't 2) there is still some recruits in the system that haven't actually done Selection 3) The actual standard of 14mins is probably not rigorous/tight enough - there are still quite a few who just make it under the limit rather than get close to thier MATT requirements
Incidently on the last weekend 6 at Malta Barracks - everybody passed
 
#10
None of the Brigades have been given authority to pass or fail at selection yet. 'They' (mystical beings of no fixed abode!) are still crunching the numbers. Some Bde's have taken it upon themselves to apply a 'pass' standard, if authority has been given for this then it is a double standard. We have been pressing for some standards for a long time to no avail. All (the greater) we can do is advise individuals if they will struggle or not to complete the CMS R.
I agree 14 mins isn't rigourous enough. What it does do however is allow a small number of people to continue training, for example last weekend was a 1B6, all passed, everything. One of the lads had initially failed to pass the RRR, in the interim, with progressional training on the weekends and some hard work, he got his time down to below 11 mins. Bearing in mind he still doesn't have to do a PFT for at least 6 months (He was Corps), there is a very good chance that he can take the remaing 30 secs off. Job done. If we'd have binned him at the start for going above 14 mins then we'd have lost a good bloke. There are a number of people who have been in the same position.
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#11
OnTheBus said:
wobbler said:
If ADSC is working why were their people in my cadre at 4 Div RTC who were struggling with PFT requirements on weekend 6? (and had been since weekend 1)
Bottom line is they shouldn't be doing a PFT until well after they have completed CIC (or special to arm). Like it or not those are the rules. If you have in fact got your terminology wrong, and you are referring to the RRR (Risk Reduction Run) and not the PFT. Then, you have cause to moan. They really should be passing this within the 14 mins for other Arms or 13 mins for Inf. If they are not, they are not permitted to continue onto the next phase of training, and need to return to the RTC until they do pass.

In answer to the original question, ADSC is working. But RTC's now need to see some selection standards, i.e. time's wieghts and numbers fo the PSSR. score for the BARB, how do the training team decide whether an individual meets a required standard when there has been no required standard laid down across the TA?
OTB,

Where is it laid down that a recruit cannot conduct a PFT until after CIC/Phase 2? Surely as it is the lowest standard of physical test applied, and is a good way of measuring improvements in fitness, it should be run several times throughout the recruit training process?
 

RP578

LE
Book Reviewer
#12
iamalondoncrab said:
That can't be a huge problem; when I was in the process of joining the RMR, we had phys at the unit every drill night. All we had to do was sign a waiver/insurance form (I dunno precisely what it was, didn't read it), and were free to be beasted by the PTI, sometimes by ourselves, sometimes with the Phase 1 nods. I can't see why the TA couldn't do the same thing.
I'm going to hazard a guess that if this was in the last few years, then the PTIs that ran those lessons had the relevant UK Athletics qualification. As do the PTIs at ACIO/AFCOs and those PTIs (TA or Reg) who work at ADSCs.

Greenbadger said:
A few thoughts 1) Not all brigades are Passing/Failing at ADSC leaving it to the units to decide which they don't
This should have been happening since April! Out of interest, which Bdes are slacking here?


Greenbadger said:
2) there is still some recruits in the system that haven't actually done Selection 3) The actual standard of 14mins is probably not rigorous/tight enough - there are still quite a few who just make it under the limit rather than get close to thier MATT requirements
Hence the recommendation by the Regulars to the ACIOs to push their candidates to aim for the 11:30 mark at Selection to have a good chance of passing phase 1. Again, perhaps something we in the reserves should emulate.
 
#13
CMS (R). It makes no reference to PFT, and the only pass standard mentioned is the ISA's at the end of Phase B, and the assessments at the end of Phase C.
As I understand it, the idea is to progressively train the recruits on a range of different physical activities in order to allow them to complete the two Physical tests as laid down in MATT 2.

These aren't my opinion's by the way. Just the syllabus... as I understand it. Quite happy to be shown I'm wrong.
 

RP578

LE
Book Reviewer
#14
OnTheBus said:
None of the Brigades have been given authority to pass or fail at selection yet. 'They' (mystical beings of no fixed abode!) are still crunching the numbers. Some Bde's have taken it upon themselves to apply a 'pass' standard, if authority has been given for this then it is a double standard. We have been pressing for some standards for a long time to no avail. All (the greater) we can do is advise individuals if they will struggle or not to complete the CMS R.
Who told you that? It is simply untrue. The 'trial period' during which the ADSCs could only recommend a pass or fail ran from January to April 2008. As of this April all ADSCs should be passing, failing or deferring as per the standards laid down in the Territorial Recruit Selection User Guide. The only part of the Selection that we cannot pass/fail on are certain PSS(R) tests which are still to be regarded as assessments until enough data has been captured for a standard to be set.
 
#15
In the South, RTC(SE) on behalf of 145Bde & LDTC do pass/fail as commanded by thier Commanders, but I think 2Bde & 43Bde don't and from an earlier in the year thread some other Brigades don't either
 
#16
RP, As I sais a moment a go, I'm happy to be proved wrong, I've e-mailed the OC Recruit Selection the link to this page, and he can get on the case. If we're missing a trick, he'll sort it out.
I'm haven't got the full references and facts at hand, so I'll graciously bow out at this point until I do.
 
#18
RP578 said:
OnTheBus said:
None of the Brigades have been given authority to pass or fail at selection yet. 'They' (mystical beings of no fixed abode!) are still crunching the numbers. Some Bde's have taken it upon themselves to apply a 'pass' standard, if authority has been given for this then it is a double standard. We have been pressing for some standards for a long time to no avail. All (the greater) we can do is advise individuals if they will struggle or not to complete the CMS R.
Who told you that? It is simply untrue. The 'trial period' during which the ADSCs could only recommend a pass or fail ran from January to April 2008. As of this April all ADSCs should be passing, failing or deferring as per the standards laid down in the Territorial Recruit Selection User Guide. The only part of the Selection that we cannot pass/fail on are certain PSS(R) tests which are still to be regarded as assessments until enough data has been captured for a standard to be set.
RP,

Please can you resolve this argument by providing the references for this?

I am not disagreeing with what you say, but would rather this didn't go round and round and get more and more heated :)

msr
 

RP578

LE
Book Reviewer
#19
msr,

Will try to dig out the memos for you early next week when I'll be in a position to so. Meanwhile the standards for passing, failing and for what is to remain an assessment pending further data capture, can be found in the aforementioned "Territorial Recruit Selection User Guide".

I do actually have a pdf of said manual to hand and can email to anyone who wants a copy (it doesn't have a Restricted marking). PM with email address if interested.
 
#20
Just to add to the confusion - there is just one small flaw to the statement "pending data capture" - nobody from above is actually requesting detailed data.......................
 

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