Admirals fight back to save the Harrier

Discussion in 'Royal Navy' started by Abdiel, Nov 10, 2010.

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  1. "They write: "In respect of the newly valuable Falklands and their oilfields, because of these and other cuts, for the next 10 years at least, Argentina is practically invited to attempt to inflict on us a national humiliation on the scale of the loss of Singapore.

    Clearly the fact the islands are now strongly garrisoned, can be speedily reinforced by an air bridge and are defended by what is arguably the 2nd best fighter in the world in the world has passed these gentlemen by.
  2. Save the Harrier Jump Jet!
    Top of the list of idiotic decisions made in recent 'defence review' was to axe the Harrier GR9. This highly flexible and battle-proven aircraft is jointly owned by the Royal Navy and RAF and provides the only British fixed-wing aircraft that can be flown from the RN's last remaining Carrier HMS Illustrious. (HMS Ark Royal, still in good running order, is being suddenly and prematurely axed from the fleet, decommissioning around Christmas). The RAF has always resented the Fleet Air Arm which has actually proved to be far more flexible, efficient and useful in combat (The RAF has not managed to shoot down a single enemy aircraft in the multiple conflicts since WWII). The fast jet jockeys of the RAF have managed to persuade the government to keep most of its expensive and far less useful Tornado and Typhoon squadrons and the expense of the battle proven Jump-jet. This will also cause a major problem for the RN as the specialist skills and experience needed to operate fixed wing aircraft from ships will be degraded or even lost in the 10 years or so before the new aircraft carriers are available. Carrier aviation is a far more useful asset than a land-based bomber force that will always require foreign co-operation to operate. If the government can be persuaded to see past RAF mis-information we could actually save money by retaining the Harrier and axing the more expensive Tornado.

    Please take a few minutes to SIGN THE ONLINE PETITION to save the Harrier and prevent this lunacy going ahead.

    Saving the Harrier

    Save the Royal Navy
  3. Yet another factually incorrect and prejudiced diatribe to introduce what potentially could have been an honourable petition.

    I suggest that the retired admirals and yourself ID would be better served progressing your cause via factually correct and more reasoned arguments and stop using 1982 as a justification; it's clearly easily rebutted by politicians due to the presence of MPA (whether you agree with its utility or not).

  4. My hopes sank as soon as the Falklands were mentioned. As MM says, a promising endeavour let down by the wrong tack.
  5. Wasn't a similar thing said about Singapore or are you being ironic?
  6. Well so long as Argentina lacks a good SF Commander who might think knocking out four aircraft not entirely beyond him, pretty certain that if the position was reversed the SAS/SBS would come up with a workable plan. Still UK never ever under estimates its enemies does it?
  7. "Well so long as Argentina lacks a good SF Commander who might think knocking out four aircraft not entirely beyond him, pretty certain that if the position was reversed the SAS/SBS would come up with a workable plan. Still UK never ever under estimates its enemies does it? "

    Oh for gods sake, have you not read a single bloody thread about the huge challenges the Argentines face in actually seizing control of the islands?
  8. ID,

    We can all dream up Clancyesque scenarios.

    Let me ask you this: say they destroy the Typhoons. Any such action would need to be followed up immediately by a weighty operation involving Argentine naval, air and land forces.

    Let’s look at worst case scenario: an attempt to retake the Islands with the limited Argentine capacity reinforced by some nutcase like Venezuela’s Chavez. Even assuming that they have the capacity for combined ops and they get to MPA and destroy the jets, do you think that perhaps we may have noticed preparations? That would have elicited a reinforcement of the Islands.

    Sadly ID, the UK is being forced to accept enormous military risk in several areas right now. Based on Argentine military capability and MPA, the Falklands, frankly is way down that list. I can think of at least 2 maritime areas of risk that I would consider surpassing a 1982 replay.

    It’s not a matter of underestimating potential enemies. It’s a case of being able to address the most dangerous risks with our limited resources.

  9. Anyone who thinks that a letter in the newspapers is going to create mass public outrage and thus cause the Government to change it's mind on a politically contentious decision that has already been made needs to a) get a grip b) take a GCSE in British Politics.

    It's too late to save Harrier. The political fight, for those who think that a powerful RN based around a CV is the right force structure (and there is some debate over that) is to ensure that the next SDSR in 2015 at the very least endorses the approach of this SDSR (two carriers for now, cats and traps, F35C) and doesn't use the capability holiday as an excuse for killing-off naval fast air for good.

    This sort of letter is an own goal for the RN. It doesn't resonate politically, or in the media, or with the public. The service community also know it's mostly bolleaux.

    Time now for the RN to regroup, have a deep strategic think about what it wants, and start making the argument through political and media channels in a measured, intelligent, and convincing way, so that in 2015 it has won the argument before the review begins.
  10. Bouillabaisse

    Bouillabaisse LE Book Reviewer

    It's generally symptomatic of the FAA that, despite it being their primary job to kill submarines, they forget about it as a weapon. The best deterence against a strike against the FI is a T class submarine operating in the area.

  11. Please read up on OPERATION MIKADO when casually saying SF can take a defended airfield.
  12. Singapore was defended by a handful of obsolete fighters in 1942 and it was impossible to resupply the islands by air as we had no strategic transport aircraft in 1942. Nor was Singapore 300 miles off the coast of Malaya.
  13. Jim, you know he's a monomaniac ignorant bumptious tw@t with his fingers permanently in his ears; I try not to bite but can't help it now and then....
  14. Abso-bloody-lutely!

    Persisting with this train will I fear merely undermine the entire CVF/F-35C argument in 2015.