Admiral: tinpot armed services

#1
Admiral: 'tinpot' armed services
Sunday Telegraph
Link
Britain's beleaguered Armed Forces are in danger of being turned by the Government into a "tinpot gendarmerie" incapable of defending UK interests, according to one of the country's top military figures.

Defence cuts and financial infighting at the Ministry of Defence are threatening Britain's status as a world power, said Admiral Sir Alan West in a blistering attack on Labour's defence policy.

In an interview with The Sunday Telegraph, he said the Government was risking the future security of British interests by reshaping the armed forces to wage long-term "anti-terror" campaigns in places such as Iraq and Afghanistan.

Sir Alan, 58, said the MoD was behaving "like these tinpot countries" that fail to invest in major equipment programmes, and spend defence budgets on running rather than developing their armed forces. "That way is a recipe for disaster for a defence force that has to do all the things that Britain may have to do in the next 50 years," he said.

In 10 years' time, the threat facing the UK could be something "far more dangerous than terrorism in central Asia". He added: "All we could be left with is an Armed Forces that is effectively a gendarmerie. And I suppose we would retire to our island and hope that no one gets to us."

Sir Alan's comments follow recent criticisms of Government treatment of the Army from General Sir Richard Dannatt and General Sir Mike Jackson, the present and former heads of the Army respectively.
Admiral Sir Alan West link

Admiral Sir Alan West interview link

(edited to add interview link)
 
#2
Outstanding. Another recently retired officer sticks his head above the parapet etc etc.

Moral cowardice of the highest order.
 
#3
Jumping on the band wagon, but what the hell the more the merrier. I'd rather they see the light and speak up now rather than never saying anything at all.
 
#4
Taitmonster said:
Jumping on the band wagon, but what the hell the more the merrier. I'd rather they see the light and speak up now rather than never saying anything at all.
Did anyone see the horse leave? I'm pretty damn sure I shut the fricking stable door.....
 
#6
It's amazing what you can get away with saying after your pension is secured.

"Air Vice Marshall Ginger Tourniquet-Smythe today said that Tony Bliar is a cnut. The recently retired fast jet blaggard, admitted he had felt this way for most of his career, but needed to secure his pension to pay for his new boy-bride"

RRR
 
#8
Yes, let's have a pop at a retired Officer who has said something that we agree with, because that'll make things better.

Why is it hypocrisy to wait until you're retired and are allowed to speak before doing so?
 
#9
Themanwho said:
Yes, let's have a pop at a retired Officer who has said something that we agree with, because that'll make things better.

Why is it hypocrisy to wait until you're retired and are allowed to speak before doing so?
Because senior officers (all officers actually) have a responsibility for the welfare of their troops and any concerns should be pushed up the chain when they can do something about it, not bleated about when they can't.

OR's are usually ignored as 'moaning' when they have a genuine gripe, commissioned officers are usually regarded as more 'mature' and less likely to be just moaning.
 
#10
I spoke my mind while I was still serving, explaining why I left the Army after 26 year as a recruit.... :roll: :oops:
 
#11
Another one who cannot bring themselves to say anything while their in charge - it happened on his watch bbbbbblllllloooooooddddddyyyyyyy useless ttwwwwaaaaaaattttttttt.
 
#12
Bur Admiral West was openly critical of the Government whilst still in office...
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#13
TheHelpfulStacker said:
Themanwho said:
Yes, let's have a pop at a retired Officer who has said something that we agree with, because that'll make things better.

Why is it hypocrisy to wait until you're retired and are allowed to speak before doing so?
Because senior officers (all officers actually) have a responsibility for the welfare of their troops and any concerns should be pushed up the chain when they can do something about it, not bleated about when they can't.

OR's are usually ignored as 'moaning' when they have a genuine gripe, commissioned officers are usually regarded as more 'mature' and less likely to be just moaning.
And if you believe the contents of the first paragraph........
 
#14
I have been openly critical of those senior officers who appear to "grow a spine after recipt of their first pension payment" (really like that description C14 :lol: ).

But could it be that these guys are from a generation that grew up believing the only way to do things was to discuss your concerns with your CoC (that's Chain of Command, not the term used to identify T Bliar & his cronies - CO*K).

Could explain why so many come out of the woodwork once the sun shines on their holiday villa!
 
#15
I actually take issue with what he is saying. Is he saying that we should not invest in giving troops what they need for current operations? Credit to Des Browne, a deal of money has been spent/earmarked recently on equipment that we are desperately short of right now. The problem was caused by people like Admiral West, signing up to Ops in Afg and Iraq without the necessary equipment or manpower. I presume he would rather we spent the money on the Royal Navy. Don't knock the Govt for trying to procure essential equipment now. Jees, Des Browne is the first person in Govt to say we need more troops, where have the Chiefs of Staff been for the past 7 years? Cocktails?
 
#16
I think those who say our seniors have not spoken out until retirement are missing part of the role they played. There is a lot of straight and blunt talk that goes on - but behind closed doors. That is the nature of government at that level and how business should be carried out. Many of these men have banged the table in the Whitehall offices, but you don't go whining to the papers when it doesn't go to plan. I respect the fact they can now sit down and give fll and frank interviews, to the papers, whilst having done their best when in post.
Regardless of anything, the politicians control the money and policy we work under - so they ultimately have the last word - not the Chiefs.
 
#17
Mr_C_Hinecap said:
I think those who say our seniors have not spoken out until retirement are missing part of the role they played. There is a lot of straight and blunt talk that goes on - but behind closed doors. That is the nature of government at that level and how business should be carried out. Many of these men have banged the table in the Whitehall offices, but you don't go whining to the papers when it doesn't go to plan. I respect the fact they can now sit down and give fll and frank interviews, to the papers, whilst having done their best when in post.
Regardless of anything, the politicians control the money and policy we work under - so they ultimately have the last word - not the Chiefs.
Seemed not to bang table hard enough or have the courage to say NO.
 
#18
I think Mr Hinecap misses the point, that the way Govt works changed when New Labour came to power. If it is not in the press it does not get fixed. I don't have much respect for retired officers speaking out and in my experience they did not appear to be that interested in sorting out the front line whilst serving. I would however agree that the momentum appears to be with the AF just now, so his pennyworth will probably add to that in a small way. His comments could also be seen as part of a wider campaign to receive more funding, a campaign that might be being orchestrated by serving officers who understand how to fight New Labour in the press.
 
#19
nigegilb wrote: "Credit to Des Browne, a deal of money has been spent/earmarked recently on equipment that we are desperately short of right now. The problem was caused by people like Admiral West, signing up to Ops in Afg and Iraq without the necessary equipment or manpower. I presume he would rather we spent the money on the Royal Navy. Don't knock the Govt for trying to procure essential equipment now."

There is absolutely no credit due to DB. All money spent on Urgent Operational Requirements comes out of next years budget, it is definetly not new money.

If new money was squeezed out of Pa Broon by DB :lol: , then he may deserve some credit. Until then he is actually living on credit as we will have to cut our cloth in the future to pay for what he spends today, very New Liabour :evil:
 
#20
nigegilb said:
I think Mr Hinecap misses the point, that the way Govt works changed when New Labour came to power. If it is not in the press it does not get fixed. I don't have much respect for retired officers speaking out and in my experience they did not appear to be that interested in sorting out the front line whilst serving. I would however agree that the momentum appears to be with the AF just now, so his pennyworth will probably add to that in a small way. His comments could also be seen as part of a wider campaign to receive more funding, a campaign that might be being orchestrated by serving officers who understand how to fight New Labour in the press.
I am knot sure on how PUBLIC they should be but they should most certainly say NO and get it documented so that the plebs know that it will come into the public domain. Also comments to the press in the vain of "We have made the position of the AF and it's abilities clear to the Priminister in the current resources climate". Might couse the idle jurnos to dig a bit.
 

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