Actor Alec Baldwin fatally shoots woman on film set.

Jacl

War Hero
The outcome suggests otherwise.

She wasn't a trained soldier in the British army. She was a recent graduate of a liberal university campus who'd been given a few pointers in weapons handling by her 78 year old father.

Hence, semi-trained little girl.

Your hoop is your own business.
The last sentence was worth the funny.
 
Yep, but the armorer was awol and/or a noob.

The armourer's kit was being used for fun plinking when it was meant to be in her custody? Was she too dim to get on their case and fook them off then check the weapons were safe when they were done? Not to mention asking them how the actual fark they managed to access her kit in the first place.

Sweet Odin's Furry Undercrackers! Did she have nice tits? Those hollywood creatures will give any unqualified shitwit a job if they look the part.
 

DSJ

LE
A friend of mine was recently working as a security consultant on a set. His role was to advise the Director/Assistant Director on best practice in terms of the security on & around the set. On regular occasions he would identify potential problems, identify a solution & provide input and in turn would be regularly over-ruled/ignored with a 'tough/not interested, this is how we are doing it'.

By extension/in consequence, an over-worked, tired crew dealing with a director screaming 'just get it f***ing done' could easily lead to an accident. Not saying that this is what happened here, but an observation.
 
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Sweet Odin's Furry Undercrackers! Did she have nice tits?
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How incredibly sad that she has a Crow tattoo...
 
Been doing a little bit of supporting actor work for films over the last year, carrying firearms and occasionally firing blanks. ( the weapons, not me )

In my limited experience it appears to be very much standard operating procedures in the UK on their approach on the sets in regards to the issue, control and carry of firearms.

Set Guns

Non-working
..... Literal props with no working parts, either plastic airsoft type affairs, rubber weapons used in training for self-defence ( think rubber knives ) or fully deactivated weapons.

Replica.....Either airsoft or deactivated but with working parts but no capability of firing any type of round

Blank Firing....Genuine weapons adapted to firing blanks or constructed for blanks but incapable of firing a round....however often capable of sending the propellant gases through the end of the barrel for effects purposes

Section 5 Firearms
...Genuine live firing weapons, sometimes adapted to fire a smaller round, but these are live fire weapons. Not fitted with external BFA's. Not used for blanks.

No live rounds ever on set. All rounds accounted for and checked before and after issue

Weapons issue

Supporting actors confirmed as ex-military and/or experienced in weapons carry i SPACT trained in firearms in some cases.....not always confirmed on set but your booking agency will have.

Sometimes weapons are directly issued depending on your character or you can have a little free for all if its not film essential who carries what.

Armourer issues the weapon from the armoury ( truck normally ) and confirms that you are familiar with the type of weapon being issued, if not and you are competent, will provide an essential rundown. ( its assumed that you do in fact know a selection of weapons to have been selected this far )

Weapon is proved before being handed over, regardless if its a prop/airsoft/blank firer or section 5. The state of the magazines are proved and no live blanks are issued from armoury.

If required to fire blanks, these are issued separately to specific supporting actors and accounted for. Treated at all times as live rounds and often magazines kept off weapons until actual filming.

All weapons are treated as live from this point, no pointing at people, no letting weapon out of your sight, returning weapon to armoury or into control of a sensible person if needing to briefly leave set etc.

No buggering about. Practice of weapon drills such as transition from rifle to pistol can be practiced but in a sensible area if required on set....not the canteen or around people or the public.

Weapons used during the filming as directed, sometimes you just jog about and carry, other times you deploy into tactical positions or patrol.....as directed you start firing which can mean simply going through the motions with a deactivated/prop weapon and doing the " bang " or " bang bang bang " in your head while simulating recoil ( CGI effects added later )

Blank firers are nominated, fire arcs are indicated and all actors are aware who has these weapons and to keep a distance....no actors in front of weapons within a certain distance, no pointing at any person directly and ear defence issued to all nearby.

End of shoot, all weapons handed back into armoury and accounted for. All unused rounds handed back in....not seen an " I have no empty cases, loose rounds " declaration yet, but its assumed you are adults. Any problems with the weapons reported.

Any safety problems during the shoot can be immediately flagged up and from what I have seen are actually listened to as its assumed we are ex-military ninja experts and know are stuff. Even suggestions from the supporting actors about what weapons would be appropriate can sometimes be listed to.

Anyone with more experience, please correct or add to this.
I've been an extra for about ten years. Never been given a gun but cigarettes (non tobacco} and matches were issued in a very similar way to the above. Spent matches and all ciggies to be returned and a signature on one's call sheet.

CFB
 
RAF Northolt 1981. RAF Regiment instructor is demonstrating to a bunch of us erks how dangerous a blank round can be if discharged directly at a person. He removes the BFA from an SLR and puts an empty Coke can over the muzzle. He then fires blank round after telling us to watch how far the can would be propelled. The Coke can went nowhere, but peeled back like a flower and disintegrated into many razor-sharp pieces of aluminium... One of which proceeded to neatly remove said Rockape's right ear lobe. To us, this was a much more effective demonstration.

In a similar vein but with thunderflash. The standard way that DS demonstrated the power of these to recruits was to strike the thing, cover it with a tin helmet which would fly 50 feet into the air when the device went bang. One Cpl decided a better demo would be for him to stand on top of the helmet and the ensuing force would lift him a couple of feet, of course matters such as interia, force, Newton's laws of motion etc. all contrived to break one of his ankles at boom time, which, to be fair, are not the kind of matters that typically preoccupy DS. Anyway he was carted off to get fixed and presumably never tried that trick again, although another DS Cpl lost a finger or two while demoing (badly) something with a thunderflash.

It's always A DS Cpl who dream up these kind of flawed stunts isn't it? (and long may they continue) I wonder if our on set armourer in this case was a former DS Cpl?
 
View attachment 611593
How incredibly sad that she has a Crow tattoo...

That's the armourer? I know you shouldn't judge a book by the cover but I'd have my doubts about her exerting any authority over crew and cast members. Her quals can't be judged from a pic but I doubt she'd have the grumpy fuck you attitude to tell the director to sod off or a big star to wind his neck in and do things the way she told him to.


A friend of mine was recently working on a security consultant on a set. His role was to advise the Director/Assistant Director on best practice in terms of the security on & around the set. On regular occasions he would identify potential problems, identify a solution & provide input and in turn would be regularly over-ruled/ignored with a 'tough/not interested, this is how we are doing it'.

By extension/in consequence, an over-worked, tired crew dealing with a director screaming 'just get it f***ing done' could easily lead to an accident. Not saying that this is what happened here, but an observation.

Similar thing doing an instant coffee ad with a DC3. They came up with a few stupid ideas and were told it wasn't going to happen. Other stupid ideas that were nothing to do with us were quite often carried out because the big shot foreign director said so, putting an extra load on the crew and taking chances with safety. We just did our bit and stayed out of the way for the most part.
 
Similar thing doing an instant coffee ad with a DC3. They came up with a few stupid ideas and were told it wasn't going to happen. Other stupid ideas that were nothing to do with us were quite often carried out because the big shot foreign director said so, putting an extra load on the crew and taking chances with safety. We just did our bit and stayed out of the way for the most part.
Remember those mongs who tied the jet rangers together in Cape Town?
 
Yup. Sometimes you just have to break the director's heart.
 
So, 8 years of occasional, unstructured, on-and-off ramblings, with no exam or certification.

Hugely robust.

This is the US we are talking about where it seems that many in possession of firearms have had even less training and safe handling assessment than this. It's the same for all the other comments here that talk of process failure, the idiocy of mixing blank/live ammo, "borrowing" a prop firearm for a bit of plinking to relieve the boredom etc, that is the US way, it's no use talking in the context of the UK as there is little to no overlap.
 

DSJ

LE
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If this is the case and the set was not shut down, heads must surely roll.
 

theoriginalphantom

MIA
Book Reviewer
Hot and cold is very much an American thing.
Blackhawk Down, in the scoff queue, the Delta cowboy. "That's a hot weapon. Safety should be applied at all times."
"Here's my safety right here, Sir." Shows finger. Yes, I know it's a film. Plenty of vids on YT of septics saying 'hot' weapon, going 'hot' etc on ranges.

I heard our American friends on tour refer to "going hot" and "weapons hot" I wondered if they'd copied that from films or not.
 
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One for the civvy shooters on here. How is SAA training handled in civilian clubs?

Well assuming you have got to the point of wanting to join a club (here I am talking of pistol/rifle type club, not shotguns) then first off it is background and reference checks plus the club will want to assess how you come over, tip up looking like Rambo etc. talking of "the commies etc" will likely see you shown the door.

So assuming everyone is happy for you to start then you have a probationary period to be trained and assessed, there hte emphasis is very much on safety, can you show you really do know the drills and are seen as someone who will apply them at all times, naturally an ability to hit the target is also needed, this take at least 3 months, then you get an interview to assess if you are right for the club and assuming so you are invited to join. Once a full member you can apply for an FAC which will limit you to what you need for whatever it is you do at the club, Target Rifle, Gallery Rifle etc. You will need to install safes (one for firearms one for ammo) and the Police will need to inspect them and where they are fitted to ensure that matches their needs. Once you have that and your FAC references and GP have signed off that they believe you are fit to possess firearms/ammo you get your FAC and off you go and buy what the FAC says you are allowed to buy, that then has to be communicated to the Police and the club and there you go, you stick to the Ts&Cs and regulations of the club and the Police and you are left pretty much alone.

So this is a long winded and bureaucratic process but assuming there are no blockers along the way you will get there in the end. No-one is trying to stop club members possessing but just trying to weed out the undesirables and making sure everything is done safely.

If at any point along the way you start to look like you might be in danger of becoming unsafe expect your club to advise the Police to confiscate and your membership curtailed.
 

4(T)

LE
One for the civvy shooters on here. How is SAA training handled in civilian clubs?


A noob to shooting undergoes a probationary period in a club.

Civvie clubs use civvie and MoD ranges. They therefore follow a strict safety code of range procedure and weapon handling - essentially the same as Service procedures, but with even more restrictions and precautions (e.g. firearm has bolt removed or breech flag inserted after end-of-shoot safety supervisor check, unlike the military "ease springs").

New shooters are trained in these procedures by their club or on a formal course (eg by the NRA or similar organisations).

Private clubs are self-regulated in terms of overall shooting safety, but most clubs that use NRA or MoD ranges are required to issue "shooters competency certificates" (SCC) to certify that an individual shooter has passed an appropriate assessment.

These SCC cards are split into various categories of shooting sport (Muzzle loading, target rifle, gallery rifle, etc) and shooters are only certified in those disciplines that they have been assessed in. That ensures safe weapon handling across a range of different systems (eg black powder muzzle-loading pistol is substantially different from bolt action target rifle in its procedures and safety issues).

Regardless of the above, peer pressure is a major factor. Safe shooters will not tolerate anyone that demonstrates an unsafe practice.
 

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