ACL reconstruction: officer application

[DocSavage]

Unfortunately any ACL rupture (complete rupture or tear, not partial tear) now means you are unfit military service in the regular or reserve forces. Sorry

 

[P-Ride]

And that's regardless of any kind of treatment, at all?

I'm guessing from the name, you're an army doctor, too?

You think this rule's a keeper? At least it makes things simple.. I was messing around with age considerations for a while!

Thanks

 

[DocSavage]

Correct on all counts! It does not matter whether you have had reconstruction surgery or not. The rules were changed as there is evidence that ACL injured soldiers do not do as well as those without ACL injury so it is unlikely they will change back.
Technically I am an ex-army doc but as I am about the only person doing orthopaedic medical assessments for recruits at the moment then the information comes from as close to the centre as you can get.

 

[P-Ride]

Damn.. that's a lot of young guys now, for whom the advice should surely be, 'Interested in the army? Don't play football.. and possibly be very careful with skiing and rugby?'

You could be at Oxford, first team rugby captain and a physiological and intellectual giant - and your ACL goes on the football field and any military ideas are now shattered?

 

[ashford_old_school]

Damn.. that's a lot of young guys now, for whom the advice should surely be, 'Interested in the army? Don't play football.. and possibly be very careful with skiing and rugby?'

You could be at Oxford, first team rugby captain and a physiological and intellectual giant - and your ACL goes on the football field and any military ideas are now shattered?

Yes, it's that simple. The army life is very harsh on the joints. I type whilst in pain from knees after injuring it playing rugby 6 years int an army career but continuing for a further 19, progressively picking up more injuries and pain along the way. I am in receipt of interim war pension, but would much rather have my knees back.

 

[Gorgonopsid]

Damn.. that's a lot of young guys now, for whom the advice should surely be, 'Interested in the army? Don't play football.. and possibly be very careful with skiing and rugby?'

You could be at Oxford, first team rugby captain and a physiological and intellectual giant - and your ACL goes on the football field and any military ideas are now shattered?

I say this with little bitterness, it affected me too, but I think far better a few ruined dreams from people who can do very well for themselves in civvy street, than a soldier putting himself and his entire section at risk, because of a much greater likelihood of breakdown under stress at a most inoportune moment.

 

[P-Ride]

That's fair enough, just clarifying! It's a bit of a pain they said 26 was the cutoff, shortly before I turned 26.. then bumped it back up to 30.. otherwise I may have had another crack aged 27/28.. but hey, at least I have a clear, non-negotiable closure now!

 

[Idrach]

I'm just lucky it's "no candidate". Mind you, I wonder if that will make me MND ...

 

[devexwarrior]

Having had this op, and then done a further 17 years service, I wouldn't recommend it, joining that is. I can barely walk now, and not without the aid of a leg brace.


Posted from the ARRSE Mobile app (iOS or Android)

He uses not being able to walk as his excuse for not going to the bar! But seriously, A_o_s was a decent (well, at least enthusiastic) rugby player in his youth and was very fit all round and it is a shame that he is reduced to the shambling wretch that he has become (partly because of his knee and partly from drink). You run the risk of long term disability with this type of injury. I injured my ACL on exercise but thankfully it healed well - hurt like buggery for months though. I sympathise with the poster who donated a patellar tendon, I had my PT reconstructed and I can't kneel on the bugger for more than two minutes (on the plus side, I always know when it's going to rain but as I live in SW Wales a knee that twinges when bad weather approaches is not much of an asset).

 

[ashford_old_school]

He uses not being able to walk as his excuse for not going to the bar! But seriously, A_o_s was a decent (well, at least enthusiastic) rugby player in his youth and was very fit all round and it is a shame that he is reduced to the shambling wretch that he has become (partly because of his knee and partly from drink). You run the risk of long term disability with this type of injury. I injured my ACL on exercise but thankfully it healed well - hurt like buggery for months though. I sympathise with the poster who donated a patellar tendon, I had my PT reconstructed and I can't kneel on the bugger for more than two minutes (on the plus side, I always know when it's going to rain but as I live in SW Wales a knee that twinges when bad weather approaches is not much of an asset).

You can be a right shit at times, but spot on!!

 

[geordie84]

Applied for a role as a MI reserve in mid November and been rejected due to my ACL recon when my op was 10 years ago (I'm 31) - I recovered following physio/gym work and was playing football again 6 months later and never had any issues with my knee since! I also attended an open day at a army barracks and completed the assault course on 4 occasions on the bounce - jumping of planks/walls 6/7 foot high and landing on my feet - I feel my knee is as stable as my "good knee".

I have evidence of all my football appearances since 2008, but judging by what DocSavage is saying there is no point in spending time appealing. If this is the case why do I have the right of appeal? surely it can't be a blanket approach and consideration should be made on a case by case basis?

 

[ashford_old_school]

Yes it is, with good reason.

 

[P-Ride]

Just heard back from my local Reserves Intelligence regiment, who I'd contacted in advance of this post. They said that I may have more hoops to jump through to apply as a Reserves Intelligence Officer, but an ACL rupture does not disclude me from military service, as long as I can prove via a GP and surgeon that it could withstand army training?

He did say I will be rejected, but that I can then appeal and could potentially got cleared?

 

[ashford_old_school]

Just heard back from my local Reserves Intelligence regiment, who I'd contacted in advance of this post. They said that I may have more hoops to jump through to apply as a Reserves Intelligence Officer, but an ACL rupture does not disclude me from military service, as long as I can prove via a GP and surgeon that it could withstand army training?

He did say I will be rejected, but that I can then appeal and could potentially got cleared?

I would trust the 3MI as far as I could throw them on topics like this.

 

[mega199]

Is a partial tear to the acl still a bar to entry?

 

[Rocky999]

Hi mate, how did you get on with your application ref ACL
I applied to join The Royal Engineers Reserve but have been knockedb back due to having an ACL reconstruction, I'm in the process of appealing and gathering evidence which includes a memory stick showing myself squatting with 100kg, leg pressing 300kg thigh extension 90kg etc a surgeons letter, gp's letter a letter from my Watch Manager as I'm a Firefighter a video of me at 5 months post op at a firefighters rehab centre. Is there anything else you would include????
I had ACL on left knee in 1999 and ACL on rightk knee in 2012 all done at a specialist knee hospital in Oswestry using hamstring, I pass a yearly medical with the Fire service so quite baffled on the Army front, any help or advice would be appreciated

 

[JohnA6]

Hi Doc Savage - does your post (copied below) mean a candidate with a partial tear would be considered fit? I was about to have ACL reconstruction as I am an elite sportsman but I am now having doubts as it appers that I will not be accepted for officer selection. Would I be better not to have the surgery and work on muscular stability?

Unfortunately any ACL rupture (complete rupture or tear, not partial tear) now means you are unfit military service in the regular or reserve forces. Sorry

 

[DocSavage]

JohnA6
Sorry, I have been away from the forum for a bit. The rules are fairly clear regarding complete ACL rupture ie no way can you join. Partial tears with full recovery may allow you to join.If you can get back to fitness without surgery it may work for you but if you have a knee injury, best advice is find a good knee surgeon and do what he/she says - worry about army service after getting the knee sorted.


The official wording is as below (P8 = unfit military service, P2 or L2 = Fit to serve)

49. Knee ligaments.
a. Candidates with any history of complete Anterior or Posterior Cruciate Ligament rupture whether managed conservatively or surgically are graded P8L8.
b. Candidates with a history of partial tears of the Anterior or Posterior Cruciate Ligament are to be referred to the sS Occupational Physician responsible for the selection of recruits.
c. Candidates with a history of partial of complete rupture of any other knee ligaments are to be referred to the sS Occupational Physician responsible for the selection of recruits
d. Candidates with slight laxity of the ACL or other ligaments without a history of injury and without any loss of function may be graded L2.

Hope this helps

 

[JasonTurner]

Has anyone heard of someone who has got with an ACL operation after November 2015 when the rules were changed?

 

[geordie84]

Sorry for not providing the outcome of my appeal - I got a response 2 weeks after appealing saying the decision was final (not sure why I had appeal rights if the decision was final).

I provided proof of 8 years of playing football, 4 letters from the surgeon at the time of my op and a letter from my GP confirming I had no issues since the op, but was a waste of time. So if you have had a ACL rupture don't waste your/their time by applying.