ACF Rank real?

Discussion in 'ACF' started by sprjim, Aug 8, 2006.

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  1. Chaps, I'm opening a mahoosive can of worms here I'm sure.

    An ACF (WO2)CSM came to see me today. I came round the corner and saw the crown and said 'alright Sir'. I then read the letters ACF and felt an almighty d1ckhead.

    I know ACF Offrs have a commision and that as such they are entitled to the salute, title whatever. Do cadet WO's have an actual warrant from HM as per regular WOs? Did I do the right/wrong thing?

    Standby..... GO!
  2. right thing...he's not trying to pretend to be something he's not, and its just could try calling Sarn't Major, but that would make you sound like a Woopert.

    Given that he may be older and more experienced than you, I reckon you were just being coureous, although I have no idea what you are meant to do.
  3. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator


    No problem. He walks away feeling courtesy has been paid. It cost you nothing, and is in no way a slur on you for being polite to an ACF SNCO.

    No idea what the regs are, and see no point in getting worried about them.

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  4. He doesn't have a warrant. Call him ball bag or god, it's not going to make much difference. You shouldn't feel like a d*ckhead, it's no skin off your nose is it - better safe than sorry.
  5. Maybe he should have pointed out to you that he was ACF, though.

    I remember when I was in basic training and me and a friend "braced-up" to a WO2.

    He replied "no need to salute me, Sir's". It was obvious we were both recruit Toms. I now think the reason he said it was because he was ACF.
  6. Yeah thats what I thought. Honour is satisfied. He was a pleasant bloke too so its not like I resented the compliment.
  7. I'd personally agree with londonirish. Its courtesey at the end of the day really.
    I doubt very much he'd of been bothered if you didnt adress him that way, as its on your turf an all that.
    As for having an official warrant, as far as Im aware they dont, hence the rank SMI or RSMI (I = Instructor) Ive never seen an ACF document adressing these types as WO's. The 'I' dissapears when they get commisioned as the officers come under a type B commision.
  8. or maybe because in his day, and mine, you only braced up for officers, and he was pointing out that he had no commission
  9. To confirm: Nobody in the ACF is a WO. They do not hold a warrant of any kind whatsoever. The ranks held are SMI and RSMI. Never CSMI. On the issue of what to call them, all I know is that the regular soldiers attached to our CTT refer to our RSMI as sir, and when in front of cadets extend the same courtesy to our SMI's. Hope this helps. As to wether the rank is real or not, that isn't an issue. The ranks are appropriate to the organisation a person belongs to, and common courtesy should be the main factor in this. E.g. do we pay compliments etc to ranking police officers. Are their ranks any less real because they aren't regular army/TA. I would never dream of pulling rank on a regular or TA soldier, but my understanding is that basic courtesy would expect others to use the rank I wear and that's as far as it goes. AT THE END OF THE DAY I'M A BL@@DY YOUTH LEADER FOR F@@@'S SAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  10. When I was in the ACF, whenever I had to go into a regular camp to collect keys etc, I was often refered to "Colour" or the gate, I always explained to the men on the gate that I was an "ACF" C/SJT and as such "not a real one"......

    But you do get a lot of people in the ACF that belive they have the rank for real, but most of these are people that havn't served, or failed to pass out of basic training.

    The thing you have to be careful about is that some Cadet WO2's and 1's will have served with the same rank when they were either TA or Regular before coming across to the Cadets, so its always better to be safer then sorry :)
  11. The equivalent rank for ACF, ATC and SCC falls into what can be best decribed as an 'Adult Warrant Officer' category.

    They arent CADET Warrant Officers. They are ADULT warrant officers, (or not?...Whatever?)

    A Cadet Warrant Officer is a cadet rank, usually 18-20 years of age.(16-20 in SCC)

    I was one and actually got a cadet warrant signed by Phil the Greek....strangely, Adult Warrant Oficers get nothing of the sort!

    Some AWOs are total noshers, some are great blokes. Just like any large organisation really.
  12. Non-commissioned ACF Instructors do not hold any rank, we merely wear it.

    And, it really gets my goat when SSI’s refer to themselves, or are addressed, as ‘Colour.’ Colour Sergeant is an infantry rank, and the ACF is not the infantry, regardless of cap badge. The title is ‘Staff Sergeant Instructor’ – so get over it.

    Or am I an **** tw@t?
  13. As has been said, it's a courtesy thing and it works both ways.
    I've been commissioned (RAFVR(T) and then TA(B)) for 24 years and I've never experienced any "anti" attitude from regulars regarding my rank or towards my cadets.
    I just make sure that when I'm dealing with regular personnel (whatever their rank) I'm polite and make it clear from tone of voice, body language, etc., that they are the regular and I'm a cadet officer and a guest on their turf, so to speak. It's never stopped me from getting what I need from the individual concerned.
    As a result, I've always found that regular personnel have responded in kind and have always been courteous.
    Where's the problem?

    Then again, I've also had the benfit of 22 years as a police officer which does tend to sharpen the social and communication skills a bit!
  14. Some of the Troopers in my Sqn told me they had some ACF LCpl trying to order them around in Westdown Camp a few years back even though she was about 14.

    As you'd imagine they took it in the best possible humour, or not.
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  15. You made his day I think.....and it was an easy mistake to no harm time remember they are all WALTs....