In light of all the slagging off we in the ACF seem to receive from the majority of regs and TA I have encountered in these forums, and the fact that we cannot ever fully emulate the uniforms of our sponsor units, for quite sensible security reasons, I was wondering, in view of the current regimental changes going on in the army, is now the time for the ACF to step out and adopt it's own cap badge? The majority of us do some good work and nurture an interest in the military with our young people, but we are still referred to as walts. If we had our own badge, it would stop those people who refer to themselves as being soldiers and getting the rest of us a bad name. What do we all think?
ACF cap badge??
- Thread starter papegojan
- Start date
I think that Cadets take pride in the cap badge and the atatchment to the local regiment! Ok, they may be (in our eyes) walting it up, but this is where some of our keen new soldiers will come from. ACF may not be army, but it is a positive recruitment stream!!
Having an ACF cap badge won't stop the slatings you get from people who want to slate cadets and associated people. The ones you refer to will only start saying that it is a cap badge for some uber special forces or the like!
Having an ACF cap badge won't stop the slatings you get from people who want to slate cadets and associated people. The ones you refer to will only start saying that it is a cap badge for some uber special forces or the like!
I think the day will come in the end when we will wear the ACF Badge, but I think it would be a bad thing.
Would sponser units still want to sponser if we don't take on a certain amount of Regimental customs and traditions? Plus would the cadets be as proud to be "just a cadet" as they are now wearing the cap badge of their sponser unit? It amazes me the amount of pride that cadets take in wearing the badge of the unit that they belong.
Would sponser units still want to sponser if we don't take on a certain amount of Regimental customs and traditions? Plus would the cadets be as proud to be "just a cadet" as they are now wearing the cap badge of their sponser unit? It amazes me the amount of pride that cadets take in wearing the badge of the unit that they belong.
In the light of current standards of young people, ie the youth culture, do some of the more esteemed regiments in the Army want to be represented by fat, crisp eating and lard guzzling kids? My local ACF unit wears the Para badge and their CO is a real "Walt". If they had their own cap badge at least they wouldn't offend proper soldiers, and after their training night the older ones who end up monging around the streets would have a lesser chance of being mistaken for proper soldiers, and not bring the regular army into disrepute.
Rant Nos 1:No, just stop it now, if my County commandant see`s this it will be the start of more madness, by his muppet the RSM! We have been told we cannot wear our RTR affiliated rank slides, even though they have ACF printed on them, we now have to wear DPM CS95 with our county initial and ACF on them when in combats, OG version for Jersey HW. But, this is nuts, when in barrack dress I wear a black guernsey, but I can wear the RTR affiliated rank slides as DPM and OG will not look right!!! WTF is going on.
Rant Nos 2:Mess dress, I decided to get one, because of the price aprrox £600.00 one quote, I was reluctant to get one at first, as I`d only wear it about twice a year, once at annual camp, the other time`s a mess dinner back at county, so I managed to acquire one secondhand from RHQ £70.00, good price, good condition.
At camp last year a quote from one of our mess knobbers "er Lt Clanker, your incorrectly dressed, you dont have any ACF titles, you need to get some"
"Ok, will do, when I get home" is my reply.
mess knobber " make sure you do"
Now this was a private purchase, not issued, so my uniform allowance should cover it.
The point is, its only worn on ACF occasions, when we are all together at mess functions, so is the ACF title that important, people who know me are not all of a sudden going to think I an TA or Reg, and guests are usually intoduced with "Lt Clanker, D##/* detachment" so they would not get confused.
So no to ACF cap badge, lets keep our Regimental identities, it gives us pride in our sponsor Regiment.
Hoorah and Huzzah to the RTR!
Rant Nos 2:Mess dress, I decided to get one, because of the price aprrox £600.00 one quote, I was reluctant to get one at first, as I`d only wear it about twice a year, once at annual camp, the other time`s a mess dinner back at county, so I managed to acquire one secondhand from RHQ £70.00, good price, good condition.
At camp last year a quote from one of our mess knobbers "er Lt Clanker, your incorrectly dressed, you dont have any ACF titles, you need to get some"
"Ok, will do, when I get home" is my reply.
mess knobber " make sure you do"
Now this was a private purchase, not issued, so my uniform allowance should cover it.
The point is, its only worn on ACF occasions, when we are all together at mess functions, so is the ACF title that important, people who know me are not all of a sudden going to think I an TA or Reg, and guests are usually intoduced with "Lt Clanker, D##/* detachment" so they would not get confused.
So no to ACF cap badge, lets keep our Regimental identities, it gives us pride in our sponsor Regiment.
Hoorah and Huzzah to the RTR!
Reaper, I wholeheartedly agree with you that cadet organisations are not only a fantastic way to keep kids off the streets and build teamwork etc (not to mention a source of good recruits). The Air Training Corps have their own badge, I'm not sure about the Sea Cadets? But do you think cadets that have gone into the RAF from the ATC have any less pride in their Squadrons or units? they all wear the same badge! What if a sponsor unit to the ACF is not interested in their cadets, is there not a possibility that it could cause negativity? Perhaps with their own cap badge the cadets would still have something to be proud of. What do you think?
I think if "proper" soldiers are taking offence at kids at least trying to do something with their lives rather than sit on park benches and drink cider, then said"proper" soldiers should take themsleves outside and give themselves a talking to. They are kids for fecks sake, not a new militia starting up to put them out of a job! I would hope they have bigger things to worry about!
The thing about the RAF and the RN is they all wear a generic cap badge anyway so there's very little espirt de corps. RN tend to be loyal to the ship they're serving in I guess, the RAF tend to be loyal to ..... erm ....... well, themselves, I guess. And probably Ginsters pies.
The whole point about being affiliated to a capbadge is it can spark a little bit of loyalty into the youngsters. I certainly remember listening wide eyed to the heroic exploits of my country regiment as a Cadet. In a self centred world where most of the population only care about themslves it's good to be part of something bigger than you as an individual. Where else can they get that?
I'm not convinced a generic capbadge would do the same. The ACF as a rule don't have a history of inspiring, heroic deeds and role models that young Cadets can look up to. Your local regiment certainly does.
The whole point about being affiliated to a capbadge is it can spark a little bit of loyalty into the youngsters. I certainly remember listening wide eyed to the heroic exploits of my country regiment as a Cadet. In a self centred world where most of the population only care about themslves it's good to be part of something bigger than you as an individual. Where else can they get that?
I'm not convinced a generic capbadge would do the same. The ACF as a rule don't have a history of inspiring, heroic deeds and role models that young Cadets can look up to. Your local regiment certainly does.
So you'd agree with the Adults all wearing the ACF cap badge and stable belt, and the cadets wearing the local units capbadge but ACF stable belt.
Obviously the Adults dont need anything like the kids do, they're there for the kids after all. The kids can have the link you say they need but with the ACF stable belt not the stable belt of trained soldiers...
Obviously the Adults dont need anything like the kids do, they're there for the kids after all. The kids can have the link you say they need but with the ACF stable belt not the stable belt of trained soldiers...
I don't think it would actually matter that much either way to be honest. What grips me is people going on here about cadets being an insult to regiments etc.
At the end of the day the uniform is one of the things that gets the kids in, but before they join they know very little regimental history, so all the badges mean nothing tothem and when they are in, then is makes an interesting lesson but if they are not wearing the capbadge etc then they are not going to get their back up about wearing battle honours that they have nothing to do with earning or honouring! I think there are potentailly a lot of adult instructors maybe let the uniform go to their heads?
The ATC look fine and doesnt deter people from joining, so again, it shouldn't with the army!
If cadets wear all the sutible badges etc from their associated unit then it should be cheaper and easier than having a special cap badge made.
However, if they all wore a ACF capbade and stable belt then it won't deter numbers, or at least it shouldn't!!!!
But, i do like your idea, nice compromise!
At the end of the day the uniform is one of the things that gets the kids in, but before they join they know very little regimental history, so all the badges mean nothing tothem and when they are in, then is makes an interesting lesson but if they are not wearing the capbadge etc then they are not going to get their back up about wearing battle honours that they have nothing to do with earning or honouring! I think there are potentailly a lot of adult instructors maybe let the uniform go to their heads?
The ATC look fine and doesnt deter people from joining, so again, it shouldn't with the army!
If cadets wear all the sutible badges etc from their associated unit then it should be cheaper and easier than having a special cap badge made.
However, if they all wore a ACF capbade and stable belt then it won't deter numbers, or at least it shouldn't!!!!
But, i do like your idea, nice compromise!
Yeah, I'm all for that. If the Adult Staff were all ACF badged it would give off the right impression to all and sundry - parents and civillians could see, visibly, that no matter which County or Battalion an Adult came from he/she looks the same as another adult - therefore must be similiarly qualified. (I know this is not strictly the case but to the civillian mind....)
I think it would foster a little more Inter County assistance too - no more adult bunfights between Companies or Battalions capbadged Loamshires versus Blankshires etc etc. At the end of the day, you'd all become part of one national training team - which can only be good for the Cadets.
What really grips me is when I see cap badge rivalry between Adult Staff - "Oh don't listen to him, he's only an RE officer(in the ACF)" WTF?!
I think it would foster a little more Inter County assistance too - no more adult bunfights between Companies or Battalions capbadged Loamshires versus Blankshires etc etc. At the end of the day, you'd all become part of one national training team - which can only be good for the Cadets.
What really grips me is when I see cap badge rivalry between Adult Staff - "Oh don't listen to him, he's only an RE officer(in the ACF)" WTF?!
I went away with a cadet unit, the two regular recruiting teams that were there said the ACF provided an excellent recruiting ground due to the good work done by the organisation. It is an excellent organisation and for people to consider it an insult is ludicrous. Though I have witnessed some ACF adults letting the whole thing go to their head, mostly officers I might add (but maybe that's because I was in the Officers mess...).
Keeping the regimental links with the cadets themselves is definitely a good idea, though I did notice a number of female cadets getting very annoyed when they were told by the recruiting team they couldn't in fact you the infantry and wouldn't be able to continue wearing the cap badge they'd worn through the cadets unless they became an ACF adult - clearly not helping Reg/TA recruiting. Would it be awfully un-PC to maybe not give females an infantry etc capbadge??
Keeping the regimental links with the cadets themselves is definitely a good idea, though I did notice a number of female cadets getting very annoyed when they were told by the recruiting team they couldn't in fact you the infantry and wouldn't be able to continue wearing the cap badge they'd worn through the cadets unless they became an ACF adult - clearly not helping Reg/TA recruiting. Would it be awfully un-PC to maybe not give females an infantry etc capbadge??
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