Accredited Training for Paramedics - soon!

Discussion in 'Professionally Qualified, RAMC and QARANC' started by ibilola, Jun 16, 2005.

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  1. Interesting recent post on the Army Medic Website:

    "For those of you who know me you will know that I am a nurse not a CMT, however my current job means that I have a lot to do with the CMT cadre and its future. As a quick update on Paramedic I can say that DMETA are currently negotiating Paramedic trg for all 3 Services with the ASA and NHS Ambulance Trusts. The upshot is that we are well on track to introducing fully IHCD accredited Paramedic Trg for CMTs from late this year/early next year. We plan to have a first tranche of 16 CMT Cpl which works out at 2 per Reg AMS Fd unit. The training will involve 42 weeks full time at an ambulance trg centre close to the CMT's parent unit, at the end of 42 weeks the individual will qualify as an Amb Tech with all of the requisite experience and trg. Those who are deemed suitable will do a further 10 weeks and become State Registered Paramedics. The trg will carry a 3 year trg Return of Service and Registration will be subject to the usual annual reaccreditation requirements. Because the Amb Trust get a trainee full-time for the whole period there is no cost except T&S. Where an individual cannot maintain currency he/she will be able to return to the Amb Trust for refresher trg.

    I sat on the CMT Steering Group in 1987 and we talked about Paramedic Trg for CMT then, at long last it is happening and I for one think its well overdue. The projection is for 16 trainees per year, the reason for this is that with current CMT Cpl manning 16 is about all the system will bear, we will have the option to increase as manning improves."

    The whole thread which has been running for several years(!) can be found at:
  2. Well I will believe it when I see it!!, Cynical I might be but this was "in the pipeline" when I was given the recruitment bollocks in 88, and it didn't appear before I got out in 01, where I had to retrain to get a job out in Civ Div.

    Be good for those still in green if it happens but there has been alot of false dawns for the CMT Cadre in respect to this accreditation in the past, I hope this is not one of them.
  3. Where are theese Cpl's going to be employed after training, surely not sitting in a DS/Section painting boxes. And we all know what happens when one is away from Fld Reg/main stream RAMC, when it comes to CRs, they will get left behind, like those in the past.

    I would like to see it work, but can't really.
  4. Ventress

    Ventress LE Moderator

    The same time as the easter bunny has a boxing match with father xmas, and wins.

    ibiloa: This is classic 'party line' stuff, another dangled carrot that just turns out to be another dupt CMT hanging there!

    I would love to believe it, but the opening phrase, "I am a nurse but am involved the CMT cadre......" Its a bit like Adolf Hitler saying "I have had some problems with people but have opened a new holiday camp facility"

    A CMT should deal with CMTs not Nurses!
  5. Who will decide who the lucky 16 will be? What experience/postings/qualifications will they need?

    I don't think 16 Cpls a year doing paramedic training is really going to do much for retention either.
  6. You lot are a miserable bunch! Do you ever stop whinging?

    OK - I can understand the degree of cynism as this has been a long time coming and seeing is believing etc. etc. But so WHAT if it is a nurse that has become involved in setting this up??!! If you get the result you need surely that has to be something postitive? Maybe he/she can do a better job than some of the Cbt Med Techs? (shock horror but it could actually be true!) Maybe he/she spends less time moaning about the bad things at work and actually does something pro-active to improve them?

    Sixteen Cbt Med Techs a year is not a lot, but if you read carefully this has been acknowledged and it is hoped to increase this as manning increases. Things that are as badly damaged as the AMS can't be fixed overnight.

    It doesnt seem to matter what steps are taken to try and improve things in the AMS - there's always the like of you lot to pour scorn on it and drag others down with you.

    Misery breeds misery. And you lot are the most miserable bunch I know. Just glad I have met Cbt Med Techs that fly the flag better than you lot.
  7. Point 1. Nothing has yet come to fruition and they are still negotiating so for you to swallow the party spin; hook, line and sinker only goes to prove that

    a) you are not a CMT.
    b) you are gullible.

    As mentioned before we old and bold have heard this all before so yes we have every right to pour scorn on it.

    Point 2. We have every right to feel miserable as CMTs would be better able to steer our particular Cadre, unfortunately Nurses continue to throw CG walls up in our faces.
  8. LOL

    There ya go again. Jumping to conclusions, and pouring scorn on anyone who doesnt agree with you that the Cbt Med Techs are the be-all-and-end-all.

    Please read my post carefully. I am not gullible, not on this score anyway. I agreed that you had a right to be cynical.

    I have probably been around the medical world nearly as long as you have. Although probably in a guise you would refuse to recognise (you are right, I am not a Cbt Med Tech). I have seen broken promises and many carrots on sticks. I was NOT born yesterday.


    A number of cadres are run by other professions very successfully. Live with it. Try and learn that Cbt Med Techs don't know everything and that they are not the only ones who can run their cadre. Some of the Cbt Med Techs I have seen couldnt run a bric a brac stall. There are exceptions to every cadre.

    CG is not a 'nurse' thing. It is a profession-wide means by which medical personel (yes, even the Cbt Med Techs) can provide safe, effective medical care. If you knew anything about me at all you would know that I despise the use of CG as a means by which Cbt Med Techs are being dragged away from clinical work. Not least because of the impact it has on deployable skills.

    So - before you bark at anyone who dares to disagree with you perhaps you had better listen to what they have to say first. I have read many many threads on here and I stand by my point in previous post that you are the most negative bunch of moaners I have come across!

    Stop trying to drag the rest of the AMS down further than it has already gone!
  9. OK jezebel, I'm always willing to be proven name the other cadres.

    Leaping to conclusions that are apparently correct!

    As for gullibility......well if your not a CMT and you haven't experienced the continual broken promises in regard to 'Civilian Qualifications' then how can you possibly comment? After all it appears that you are the only one within this girth of experience who actually believes it!

    Finally if CMTs are not a recognised profession such as Nurses and HCAs etc can they and are they legally accountable under the rules of CG?
  10. Ventress

    Ventress LE Moderator


    We have seen the empty promises. The numerous steering committees headed by people who cant spell CMT. We have seen the papers and doctrines pumped out by CMT's who have never seen inside of a Fd Ambulance. We have had all the re written manuals by officers who have spent 20 years in hospitals. We have seen them come and go and achieve nothing. We have seen study teams for example for the new AFV ambulance and they had never seen the sharp end of an armoured ambulance.

    The MA/ CMT trade is in the wilderness, alone and dying because it would cost too much upgrade, too long to achieve and then any trained paramedic would be on his or her boots away to the NHS as soo as the pay back is done, because they wouldnt be paid enough.

    I saw about 4-5 DGAMS's and not much changed for the CMT, in fact changed, we had to have a HCA watch them take a tempreture and pulse.
  11. I like the idea that CMTs are finally getting the civilian training/recognition to give them a viable future in civvy street and more importantly the ability to use their skills on a daily basis. I'm in agreement with Ventress that they are likely to jump ship once the pay back is over, unless they have realistic career development after becoming paramedics. I don't have the knowledge or experience as to were this would be found - not being a CMT, but I hope if the promises are true they also consider the way forward now rather than later.
  12. Having seen the crap wages these guys are on in civvy street, I imagine that full screws on the higher band would more likely to stay on given the £23,000+ pay packet they enjoy.
  13. CMT fullscrews and higher payband never the twain shall meet
  14. OK - I concede that 'run' is not the right word. I am assuming that the nurse mentioned previously probably doesn't 'run' your cadre either. I guess what I meant to say was 'manage aspects of'.

    If you accept my correction in terminology, then the example I can give you is my own cadre/profession (See PM). The MSOs have put together a 'career pathway' for the cadre. A nurse tells me where I am best suited for posting. Doctors have drawn up plans as to where the posts are needed/not needed. And I believe it was a Cbt Med Tech who interviewed me not so long ago as part of Trg Analysis needs. We do have a nominal head of cadre (which I believe you guys/gals also have?) who is occasionally asked for their tuppence worth. My cadre is NOT managed by my profession!

    Just where did I say I believed it? I actually acknowledged that I understood your cynicism!

    Something tells me ya don't like Aunty Jez and that you want to pick a fight! Well, perhaps I was guilty of provoking - but that's the joys of Arrse innit? I am on your side, most of the time! :wink:

    As far as I understand CG, it is the responsibility of the organisation (be it the hospital, APHCS, Big Army) to ensure that all medical work is carried out to the highest, safest standards appropriate to the environment.

    Anybody working for that organisation is expected to work withing the CG guidelines to achieve the same goal. If an individual takes a risk that falls outside the SOPs, SOIs, approved working practices etc of that organisation, then they pick up the can if something goes wrong as a result of that decision. I suspect that there is an element of "I took a risk because this was a very different/difficult case and normal SOPs did not apply" which might cover certain areas. In my world, as long as you can justify that risk then you are ok.

    Not sure if that answers your question, but is not an area I deal with as a speciality - just really within my own role. I do, however, work alongside a CG guru who might be able to clarify things a bit if you need/want me to investigate?
  15. Ventress on the Button!!!

    It has been seen through the years that when it comes to the nitty gritty of close medical support on operations that the AMS will quite happily let the CMT scrape whats left at the point of wounding into a 50 year old armoured vehicle with limited supplies and equipment and still be expected to save life. Yet when it comes to clinical work in a medical centre the only use a CMT has is to file!!!

    Some of the Nurses that have been encountered by CMT's in the passed are down right awful with no comprehension of what the CMT does on the battlefield or what they are capable of in a nice safe med centre with no pressure.

    Paramedic qualifications for 16 Cpls, I can here the rubbing of hands now of 16 LCpls waiting to fill their slot when they PVR.

    Sounds great and has done for many many years, but the carrot is starting to taste just a little too bland, try a different bait. Start at the Army Career Offices maybe, because nearly every CMT that joins these days is lied to, they are told some wonderful stories on how they will be getting great quals and how they will be working in great environments doing real important stuff. Quite frankly the girls and boys joining today are being led up the garden path with false promises.

    The paramedic qualification..................Great Idea.......will never happen..........its too costly to train 16 folk only to watch them PVR.....start at the root of the problem...........Involve CMT folk in CG.etc etc etc!!

    As for being miserable.............what the hell do you expect from CMT's who have been left to rot for so long on clinical training, they no more about the engine of a 432 than setting up and using a BST.