Abu Hamza al-Masri's legacy to Britain.

[RoyalGreenJacket]

Noooo she was always shaven haven

Perfect. Some of them are stunners. I spent a few months in Delhi - the cute Indian girls that worked with us by day in their sarees scrubbed up damn well I can tell you when they rucked up to the Hilton in their micro-skirts and low-cut tops I can tell you.

I'm also liking one of the main Muslim characters in Fauda on Netflix :

I think she's half-chat but still lovely when she isn't in that Islamic garb.

Anyhow, apologies for the thread drift, there is also a very Abu Hamza looking 'leader' in Fauda.

 

[chuggafugga]

Perfect. Some of them are stunners. I spent a few months in Delhi - the cute Indian girls that worked with us by day in their sarees scrubbed up damn well I can tell you when they rucked up to the Hilton in their micro-skirts and low-cut tops I can tell you.

I'm also liking one of the main Muslim characters in Fauda on Netflix :

View attachment 632130

I think she's half-chat but still lovely when she isn't in that Islamic garb.

Anyhow, apologies for the thread drift, there is also a very Abu Hamza looking 'leader' in Fauda.

Nice nice... but I am a fan of busty... as long as she is a DD she's game to me

 

[FORMER_FYRDMAN]

As I understand it, the Pheonix programme was very different to Nazi tactics, and targeted key enemy individuals. You could have mentioned the targeting of individuals in the act. I also recall that the targets were generally Viet Cong who terrorised the local civilian population into compliance and cooperation.



I first read about it over twenty years ago!

You are missing the point, which is that extra-judicial violence can be extremely effective, by a considerable margin.

 

[Themanwho]

The Germans had a solution to this called sippenhaft. If the rights of terrorists are not curbed radically in the UK, the threat from them will grow year by year.

Not just any old Germans, Heinrich Himmler.

"Many people who had committed no crimes were arrested and punished under Sippenhaft decrees introduced after the failed 20 July plot to assassinate Adolf Hitler in July 1944. After the failure of the 20 July plot, the SS chief Heinrich Himmler told a meeting of Gauleiters in Posen that he would "introduce absolute responsibility of kin ... a very old custom practiced among our forefathers". According to Himmler, this practice had existed among the ancient Teutons. "When they placed a family under the ban and declared it outlawed or when there was a blood feud in the family, they were utterly consistent. ... This man has committed treason; his blood is bad; there is traitor's blood in him; that must be wiped out".

Taking a leaf from the Nazi Bumper Book of Being Evil is probably not the best idea for a democracy in the 21st Century. Read the bold bit above; that's what Sippenhaft boiled down to. Are you really advocating wiping out the families of terrorists?

The fact that I'm not willing to visit retribution on the nieces, nephews and grandmothers of convicted terrorists doesn't mean that I'm a panty-waist liberal snowflake, rather it suggests that anyone using the Nazis as an exemplar of a solution to a complex issue needs their heads examined.

 

[philc]

Our Muslim mental health case had been in the USA for 2 weeks and was an active Labour Party campaigner in Blackburn and a close relative of Blackburn Labour Cllr Mohammed Irfan.

 

[Themanwho]

IIRC, the Phoenix Programme was mainly intelligence gathering with some direct action taken against confirmed VC / NV communist agents (ie: killing them) by US & SVN special forces. Didn't do a great deal of damage to the US reputation despite a few Senators carping on about it, but they crippled the VC efforts to rebuild after Tet. Not particularly something that comes to mind in comparison to the Nazis...

My Lai on the other hand was the wiping out of a village by a US Army platoon which did untold damage to the US reputation for decades and could have been taken direct from the Nazi Bumper Book of Being Evil.

Top tip: When working out what to do about an enemy, the Nazi Bumper Book of Being Evil is probably not the best place to trawl for ideas.

 

[chuggafugga]

Our Muslim mental health case had been in the USA for 2 weeks and was an active Labour Party campaigner in Blackburn and a close relative of Blackburn Labour Cllr Mohammed Irfan.

If he was mad enough to vote for Keir Starmer than he must have been mad

 

[philc]

If he was mad enough to vote for Keir Starmer than he must have been mad

I would imagine he was more of fan of Corbyn and his own Anti Semitism

 

[Retired bloke]

Not just any old Germans, Heinrich Himmler.

"Many people who had committed no crimes were arrested and punished under Sippenhaft decrees introduced after the failed 20 July plot to assassinate Adolf Hitler in July 1944. After the failure of the 20 July plot, the SS chief Heinrich Himmler told a meeting of Gauleiters in Posen that he would "introduce absolute responsibility of kin ... a very old custom practiced among our forefathers". According to Himmler, this practice had existed among the ancient Teutons. "When they placed a family under the ban and declared it outlawed or when there was a blood feud in the family, they were utterly consistent. ... This man has committed treason; his blood is bad; there is traitor's blood in him; that must be wiped out".

Taking a leaf from the German Bumper Book of Being Evil is probably not the best idea for a democracy in the 21st Century. Read the bold bit above; that's what Sippenhaft boiled down to. Are you really advocating wiping out the families of terrorists?

The fact that I'm not willing to visit retribution on the nieces, nephews and grandmothers of convicted terrorists doesn't mean that I'm a panty-waist liberal snowflake, rather it suggests that anyone using the German as an exemplar of a solution to a complex issue needs their heads examined.

Fixed

 

[chuggafugga]

I would imagine he was more of fan of Corbyn and his own Anti Semitism

More a fan of J Corbyns bro as he is more of a compulsive attention seeker

 

[Stovepipe]

IIRC, the Phoenix Programme was mainly intelligence gathering with some direct action taken against confirmed VC / NV communist agents (ie: killing them) by US & SVN special forces. Didn't do a great deal of damage to the US reputation despite a few Senators carping on about it, but they crippled the VC efforts to rebuild after Tet. Not particularly something that comes to mind in comparison to the Nazis...

My Lai on the other hand was the wiping out of a village by a US Army platoon which did untold damage to the US reputation for decades and could have been taken direct from the Nazi Bumper Book of Being Evil.

Top tip: When working out what to do about an enemy, the Nazi Bumper Book of Being Evil is probably not the best place to trawl for ideas.

The problem with the Phoenix programme was that utterly innocent people were being plugged and locals were using it to bump off village elders/political opponents/crime rivals/family rivalries and innocents were being handed over to the SV police,who were grossly corrupt and invariably lethal to alleged "enemies". The VC and NVA did the same and worse again and the hardest job in the world was trying to survive as a villager in a contested area; either side could kill you at a moment's notice and all it took was for someone to claim that you were VC or vice versa, a supporter of the Americans and you were doomed. Also, the Phoenix programme, whilst effective against the VC, had no real effect on the NVA and their ability to get into the South.

 

[Themanwho]

Fixed

Nope. Whilst I am not someone who considers that Germans weren't responsible for the Nazi Party's worst excesses, the point of my post is to suggest following the lead of Himmler and the Nazis is not the best idea. So you didn't "fix" my post, you misunderstood it and then got your crayons out.

 

[Jimmy_Green]

Then, with an 80 plus majority, the government can simply change the law.

The courts can only act against abuses of the law, alter the law and they’re stuffed.

In my entire life I’ve never seen a government completely waste it’s mandate by sitting on its hands when it could enable absolutely anything that public wants, and yet refuses to do so.

They’re pathetic (and that is from someone who has voted Conservative consistently since May 3rd 1979).

The CP, as they are very fond of reminding us, is a very broad church politically speaking. This explains a lot of the infighting because of the wide political views. Boris is very much a liberal and doesn't really want to upset people but as we know, you can't please all of the people all of the time. I think for this reason the CP is riddled with indecisiveness and can be quite ineffectual at times.

 

[Themanwho]

the Phoenix programme, whilst effective against the VC, had no real effect on the NVA and their ability to get into the South.

But it did mean they were pretty much on their own when they got there; the VC withered on the vine after Tet and it was (in part) due to the efforts of Phoenix that they didn't recover, and a fair few NV agents were bumped off too, reducing the support to NVA even further.

Fair point on the difficulties of being a South Vietnamese villager.

 

[GrumpyWasTooCheerful]

Applies just as much now as it did then.

Edit removed erroneous quote.

 

[Themanwho]

Applies just as much now as it did then.

Whilst I'm always happy to listen to Bomber Harris, I don't see the relevance to a post about the Phoenix programme?

 

[RoyalGreenJacket]

I would imagine he was more of fan of Corbyn and his own Anti Semitism

JC spotted in Blackburn earlier on his way to visit the Faisal Akram family :

Apparently he was at the family house, but not involved.

 

[Awol]

Ummm....is that not what goes on now?...

I am sure I read about some Adam Cloudy geezer wandering around at liberty, who's gibberish is on every phone of anyone who has been involved in attacks, and untouchable gangs in prisons and support networks and enablers (sorry charities with tax breaks) that run money and support out to ex ISIS wallas even as I am typing this...And...They are all hero's in the eyes of many of the "community"

This deserves an outing again, listen to the horror in the stuttering fuckwit of an interviewer's voice.....

I think Phil Campion is my new hero.

 

[GrumpyWasTooCheerful]

Whilst I'm always happy to listen to Bomber Harris, I don't see the relevance to a post about the Phoenix programme?

Bugger. Sorry. It's meant to be standalone. Force of habit, just hitting reply.

Will edit and remove. That will teach me to be a lazy so and so.

 

[Themanwho]

Bugger. Sorry. It's meant to be standalone. Force of habit, just hitting reply.

Will edit and remove. That will teach me to be a lazy so and so.

No worries, as I said Bomber's always good to hear.